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88 Comments

  1. If I put a stethoscope to the chest (heart) of an atheist, is this what I would hear?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Qo5lLeCi-M

    • You’d probably hear “Taps.”

    • I would say Godwins Law could be applied to this video, but in a different context: the longer a debate continues (atheist vs theist) the more likely someone is to make an absurd, offensive, and untrue comparison of atheists to murderers or Nazis.

      My response in a nutshell: this video is a load of trash wasting bandwidth on YouTube.

    • Hahaha, that has to be a parody.

      “Sam and Richard are reasonable guys.

      NOW LET’S GO BACK MANY YEARS IN THE PAST TO FIND A GUY THAT WASN’T.”

    • Thanks for that great video.

      In a totally completely unrelated question, do you believe lying is sin Steve L?

      Don’t worry if you are too afraid to answer that straight up, quite used to it by now.

      • Three days later…

      • A full week later…

      • Nohm,

        The Christians at this blog are not nearly as obsessed at answering the questions the atheists ask here. We are settled in our minds about certain truths and feel no great desire to defend it. Some may call it running away; I prefer to say that we get a little bored about the nature of the inquiries.

        Thanks for understanding.

      • Hi Steve,

        I don’t view it as “defending”, I just view it as common courtesy to reply to questions when they’re asked of me.

        It certainly appears like “running away” since some questions will have an attempt at an answer, and some don’t.

        I guess I care that people understand what I’m saying, and what my point of view is, so I don’t understand why someone would avoid doing so.

        Especially the question above… it’s a really easy question to answer, if you have an absolute and objective morality.

      • These people are still here and posting, they just run from any discussion, just like you do every time I ask you if you find this approach effective evangelism. You know, how you have time to spell check our posts, but not answer our questions. How you have time to call us psychopaths and liars, but don’t have time to answer our questions.

        We all know why you refuse to answer ‘do you find this effective’, but it’s still fun to ask just to watch how fast the Christians flee.

        As I said before, you have a built in audience of unbelievers, better make sure you never use them to improve your evangelism, just insult them, lie to them, with a large dose of snark repeat the same old mantras that you know don’t do anything, then pat yourself on the back for a job not done and run away.

  2. Jim, no offense intended, but did your parents ever teach you this: “If you can’t say something nice, don’t say it at all. I’m telling you, my friend,I have yet to read one nice thing from you. Not even one. I understand that you can’t stand Christians, as evidenced by the title of your blog, StupidFundies.blogspot.com” but man.

    Lighten up.

    I let you post here so that the wise Christian can pray for you. And to get a little insight into the negative New Atheist mind. And to understand that there is no reasoning with your type.

    • If I put a stethoscope to the chest (heart) of an atheist, is this what I would hear? (nothing)

      You’d probably hear “Taps.”

      Jim …did your parents ever teach you this: “If you can’t say something nice, don’t say it at all.

      Beams and motes? Black pots and kettles, maybe? A little of ‘Do as I say, not as I do’?

      • “Taps” is only a reference to the beating heart playing out the rhythm of your own death march. In other words, “Are you ready?” For death? No insult at all. For those who have Christ dwelling in their hearts by faith (a figurative term), there are the glories of Heaven to look forward to. That is, of course, signified by the beautiful music emanating from the man’s heart.

        Again, it’s a warning that Jim—and you—don’t have much time left.

        Repent and believe the Gospel!

    • My browser didn’t originally show the video that Steve L posted. Because of that it looked like he was stating that atheists were heartless. Comment retracted.

    • This is from the guy who said we made better murderers just a week ago in a sad attempt to troll up some more comments.

      Can you at least try to make it difficult to call you out on your crap, Steve?

    • Jim, no offense intended, but did your parents ever teach you this: “If you can’t say something nice, don’t say it at all.

      Practice what you preach, hypocrite.

    • Jim might be the rebellious prodical son of God fearing, Jesus loving Christians. Jim am I right?

      I will try and remember Jim in my prayers. Return to the fold Jim before your time is up.

    • I’m not sure if I consider myself wise but I will say a prayer for Jim.

    • Sorry, but this is killing me: the word is “prodigal”.

  3. Steve L – do you actually believe that video? (the one you posted.) If so, why?

    • Perdita:
      If you understand the purpose of a mirror, you’ll understand the video!

      • I didn’t ask the purpose of the video, I asked if you believed it. Do you feel your video fairly and accurately represents me? If so, why?

      • Perdita, what’s not to agree with? Isn’t this how Atheists act?

      • Hi Steve L.,

        You wrote: “Perdita, what’s not to agree with? Isn’t this how Atheists act?

        Some very specific individuals (theists and atheists alike) might act that way, but “atheists” (as a descriptive group) do not; the world (especially places like Finland) would be a drastically different place if atheists were going around killing people because they thought anything was permitted.

        I’ll also point out that perdita’s question was asking if you feel your video fairly and accurately represents HER. Do you think she’s about to go on a reign of terror? From what little you know of her, on here, do you really believe that she thinks “anything is permitted“?

        Lastly, I’m confused if I’m supposed to take you seriously, with your “isn’t this how atheists act?” question. You have met atheists in person before, right? Have they gone on a reign of terror? Do they act like anything is permitted?

        How does any of this match reality?

      • Perdita, what’s not to agree with? Isn’t this how Atheists act?

        The premise and no. But I didn’t post the video – you did.

        So, do you think this video fairly and accurately represents me and if so, why?

  4. “That is, of course, signified by the beautiful music emanating from the man’s heart.”

    Eh, difference of opinion I guess. I always hated the halleluyah chorus. Even if it hadn’t been turned into a massive cliche, it’d still be rubbishy pretentious orchestra music. Which isn’t actually a bad thing, but there’s so much awesome pretentious orchestral music out there, why do people keep coming back to that one?

    When the 2012 apocalypse comes I’m gonna put an Immediate Music album on, steal a space shuttle, fly to the centre of the galaxy, and PUNCH AZATHOTH. In the face. With my BEAR HANDS. And the world will be saved. (Don’t worry, I have this all planned out. I’ll unite the feuding robot-ninja clans and get them to help me. And Bruce Willis will appear to me in spirit form to teach me how to fly the space shuttle)

  5. Great videos.

    This is one of my favorite videos,

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Qo5lLeCi-M

    • Pam that is a very clever video. At first I thought it was a proatheist video then there was the punchline. I was instantly reminded of what I read about the atheist USSR.

    • /facepalm

      Let me ask you pam, though I know will be too afraid to answer like the rest of the Christians here. “Why do Christians who believe lying is a sin worthy of eternal torment lie so easily and often?”

    • Pam

      I e-mailed the video link to about 10 people. I hope that video will be as hot as 180.

      • Tone B. Rown – You’ve stated you don’t really know any atheists and yet you appear to have no qualms about forwarding anti-atheist propaganda. I find that interesting.

        Please explain what you think are the similarities between Dawkins, Harris and Robespierre. (My guess is that you really don’t know anything about any of them.)

        Also, please explain how atheism influenced Nazi Germany. In a related question, do you think atheism also influences Christian Identity groups and the Klan?

      • Perdita the similarities between Dawkins, Harris and Robespierre is that they are all atheists. Nietzsche was an atheist and Nietzsche influenced the Nazi’s. Atheism influenced Communism to a greater extent. I don’t think atheism has had any influence on the Klan or on Christian Identity. You can’t be a real Christian and be a Klan member or a member of Christian Identity movement.

      • Hi Tone,

        You wrote: “Nietzsche was an atheist and Nietzsche influenced the Nazi’s.

        Oh, really? Please explain how.

        Atheism influenced Communism to a greater extent.

        Oh, do tell. I gotta hear this one.

      • Do you honestly not see how Christian persecution of Jews also influenced Nazis?

        You can’t be a real Christian and be a Klan member or a member of Christian Identity movement

        I’m not talking about ‘real Christians’ at this time. I’m talking about theists – those that believe in God. You can discern differences in behaviors of theists, you can even discern differences in Bible believing theists, but do you really believe that all atheists are fundamentally the same? That Robespierre = Russell?

      • Do you really think Nietzsche was a bigger influence than Martin Luther?

    • “If God does not exist, then everything is permitted”

      And yet, when we peek out of the Christian echo chamber, we find that this isn’t true. In the real world there are many theists that justify their bad behavior with a belief they are following God’s will and there are many atheists that don’t become selfish, lying, raping murderers addicted to child porn.

    • I am going to tell all my friends about stone the preacher. More people need to help atheists to see the error of their perncious ways.

      I am concerned that more and more young people are becoming lawless and disrespectful atheists. Teenagers and yound adults becomeing atheists because they think it is cool and they have no respect for authority. I believe that the atheists will usher in the era of the antichrist. There will be a new reign or terror created by atheists then people will be desperate for a savior but their savior will be the antichrist. The end times are near.

      (For the atheists if you aren’t a lawless disrespectful atheist please forgive me. )

      • For my part, I’m concerned that more and more young people are becoming irrational and bigoted Christians because they think it’s cool and have no tolerance for people who are different. I believe that christians secretly worship Cthulhu and sacrifice animals to cosmic horrors the mortal mind could never hope to comprehend. There will be a return of the Old Ones caused by the christians and Yog-Sothoth will reign over the of the slow torturous death of all life on earth.

        (For the christians if you aren’t an irrational bigot who worships a merciless non-euclidian eldrich abomination, please forgive me)

        Man I am being snarky today. Sorry for the confrontational tone, but I hope you can see the point I’m trying to make here May.

      • But, but Christians here tell us there are 300 less Atheists every day! Which is it? More and more, or less?

      • Hi May,

        I am concerned that more and more young people are becoming lawless and disrespectful atheists.

        Do you actually see this happening in reality? If so, what’s an example. If not, why are you concerned about something that’s not happening?

        Teenagers and yound adults becomeing atheists because they think it is cool and they have no respect for authority.

        What is this opinion based on? Is it based on something that you actually see happening in reality? Did you ask these people as to why they are atheists? If they didn’t answer “because it’s cool and I have no respect for authority”, do you think they’re lying to you? If you think they’re lying to you, what’s the gain for them?

        Do you think that atheists are so stupid to think that a lack of respect for authority somehow voids that authority?

        I believe that the atheists will usher in the era of the antichrist. There will be a new reign or terror created by atheists then people will be desperate for a savior but their savior will be the antichrist.

        Where do you get this belief from? If it’s from scripture, would you please supply chapter and verse?

        The end times are near.

        I thought Camping said he wasn’t doing that anymore.

      • ‘Tub… since when is it required of a theist to have to post facts when faith is good enough? Checkmate.

  6. If you listened to the heart of this atheist you would hear the joyous sound of a heart unshackled from childish superstition and morbid fear of death. You would hear the heart of a man who has no need to pacify his cowardice with imaginings of an afterlife. The sound of one manly enough to treat his fellow man with dignity,simply because he wishes to, not out of fear of imagined hellfire. Mortality is the birthright of us all, both the superstitious and the rational. The difference is that the rational choose not to pretend otherwise.

    • Actually, seeing as how this is one of those semantic pet peeves of mine I’m gonna call everyone out on this: if you listen to anyone’s heart, including your own, all you’re gonna hear is *Thump-thump thump-thump thump-thump*. Because it’s a pump. That’s all it is, that’s all it does. The heart is about as romantic as the liver, or the kidney.

      It’s the emotional centres of the brain that are the source of love, compassion and empathy, but just because some bronze age author didn’t understand anatomy we keep pretending like the heart is something other than an overhyped, involuntary muscle. I realise I’m going up against the majority of the English speaking world with this, but screw it I’m going to maintain anatomical accuracy on this if it kills me!

      Which it won’t, because my heart is busy pumping blood while everyone else is trying to wring sappy emotions and orchestral music out of theirs.

      • And in Old Testament times, the seat of the emotions were the kidneys.

      • Oh indeed but “heart” is a socially vindicated metaphor which is well understood. I think everyone in modern times even the superstitious know that the heart is but a pump. That does not mean that the poetic usage is invalid. To say someone has “stars in their eyes” also does not imply that they have titanic spheres of fusing hydrogen stuck inside their faces.

      • Quasar if you get that upset about someone using a metaphor you musn’t have seen a lot of bad things in life. You are lucky.

      • “To say someone has “stars in their eyes” also does not imply that they have titanic spheres of fusing hydrogen stuck inside their faces.”

        Well that phrase just got a whole lot less awesome. I always just assumed people’s heads were like the TARDIS.

        “Quasar if you get that upset about someone using a metaphor you musn’t have seen a lot of bad things in life. You are lucky.”

        Oh I wouldn’t worry about that. I’m sure Steve will do his best to expose me to plenty of bad things in his efforts to scare me into believing. Not that it’ll work because, y’know, evidence and all that.

      • Quasar, if you’re going to rebel against figures of speech, then you’ll also have to call out people for having “gut feelings” and “knee-jerk reactions”. If you study other languages, you’ll find that it isn’t particular to ours and Christians certainly did not invent the idea of heart-felt emotions.

      • “Quasar, if you’re going to rebel against figures of speech, then you’ll also have to call out people for having “gut feelings” and “knee-jerk reactions””

        Nah, those metaphors at least make sense. Intuitive but non-rational certainty (aka a hunch) is genuinely associated with an tightening of gut muscles, especially when others challenge it. And knee-jerk is a reference to involuntarily reflexes (though I’ve always prefered to think of that metaphor as ‘threatening to knee someone in the balls’).

        The heart metaphor, on the other hand, is nonsensical. Widespread and highly accepted, but still nonsensical. Even the physical responces to emotional pain don’t manifest themselves at that particular height in the chest: they mostly appear lower with a tensing of the abdominal muscles and higher in the throat. Doesn’t feel anything like hearburn.

        PS: You guys do know I’m mostly joking around here, right? I like tearing into them, but I don’t exactly consider nonsensical english metaphors to be Serious Business. (Incorrect usage of capital letters, on the other hand, should be a hanging offence)

  7. rykunderground says:
    If you listened to the heart of this atheist you would hear the joyous sound of a heart unshackled from childish superstition and morbid fear of death. You would hear the heart of a man who has no need to pacify his cowardice with imaginings of an afterlife. The sound of one manly enough to treat his fellow man with dignity,simply because he wishes to, not out of fear of imagined hellfire. Mortality is the birthright of us all, both the superstitious and the rational. The difference is that the rational choose not to pretend otherwise.

    Rykinderground your comment is the complete opposite of how the hedonistic atheists that I know say they feel. Despite their immoral and godless lifestyles they are always complaining about something. I think atheists like to think they are free but they are in bondage to their lusts. They don’t appear very happy to me. You must be one of the few lucky happy atheists, but true happiness does not exist without God in your life. Atheists can pretend to be happy all they want but deep down I think they won’t ever be without Jesus.

    • Hi Donald,

      I’m curious; where exactly do you meet these “hedonistic atheists that [you] know”?

      • LOL Nohm.

        Looking for “hedonistic atheists” are you?

        😛

      • Hi carl,

        Not me, no. I’m just fascinated by Donald’s view of atheists and so I’m curious where and how he meets and interacts with atheists, hedonisitic or otherwise.

    • I think atheists like to think they are free but they are in bondage to their lusts.

      I think atheism is about one thing only – a lack of belief in any deity. Because of that, you really shouldn’t be surprised to find a wide variety of atheists. Some will be sober, some will be more ‘recreational’, some will have their lives together, some will have all kinds of issues, some will be thoughtful and skeptical, some will be idiot, anti-vac, PETA supporters.

    • Indeed Donald, the happiest guy I know is an atheist, he has a wife, a good job, people like him, he’s friendly, doesn’t do drugs or lead a hedonistic lifestyle as far as I know. On the other hand, the two theists (young earth creationists and christian conservatives no less!) I work with, are angry all the time, they complain about the president, about muslims, gays, people who act foolishly, and act breathtakingly arrogant. They frequently bully the one atheist who works with us to the point where it gets me and a few other people angry. I’m not exaggerating either, its really quite fascinating.

  8. @dog
    We clearly move in different circles, Most of my friends are atheists and are quite happy and content. Obviously atheism isn’t a worldview like Christianity so we are all very different but in general we seem a happy bunch. Very few that I know are hedonistic either, as a philosophy hedonism is overrated. Many atheists are humanists. Most I know are that or Epicurists like myself

    • Ryk,

      Those are my experiences as well.

    • It seems Christians are always talking about these “immoral atheists” but I never seem to meet them. My circle of atheist friends consists almost entirely of happily married people with families. We are parents, teachers, doctors, technicians. We take care of our families, love our spouses and children, are honest in our dealings, we typically have pretty mundane interests. I get that in your worldview morality comes from your diety, just as in mine it comes from upbringing and enviroment, however the standards are not that much different and if you knew me personally and were unaware of my atheism, you would think I was living what you imagine is a Christian lifestyle.

      Know I am sure there are immoral atheists just as there are immoral Christians, but it is no more realistic to say that atheists as a group are immoral than it is to say that Christians as a group are murderers or pedophiles.

      • Having been an evangelistic Christian at one point in my life, Ryk, I can tell you why you don’t run into the atheists that fundamentalists describe:

        It’s because those atheists are largely imaginary, much like the monster under your bed.

      • Rykunderground said:

        Know I am sure there are immoral atheists just as there are immoral Christians, but it is no more realistic to say that atheists as a group are immoral than it is to say that Christians as a group are murderers or pedophiles.

        Rykunderground you can’t be a murderer or a pedophile and be a true Christian. You can only be a former murderer or a pedophile etc. Atheism has no moral code so you can be a murderer or a pedophile or a rapist or a criminal etc. That is the difference between being a Christian and being an atheist. Morality.

      • Hi May,

        you can’t be a murderer or a pedophile and be a true Christian.

        Can you be a liar and be a true Christian?

        Atheism has no moral code

        Correct.

        But atheists do have moral codes.

        Atheism is not a worldview. The word “atheism” is descriptive, and not prescriptive. I think that distinction is where you’re making your mistakes.

        That is the difference between being a Christian and being an atheist. Morality.

        I have a morality and I am an atheist. So, you’re incorrect.

        I’m curious what you’re basing your views on, since they’re quite off-the-mark.

      • Hi May,

        Do you actually know any atheists in real life? If so, please explain how you know them and how your interactions with them are.

        Thank you.

      • @May as atheism is not a worldview you are partially correct. Atheism says nothing at all about rape or murder, only about belief in mythology. However most atheists do have a worldview. As I said many are humanists, one could not be a humanist and be a rapist or murderer for the same reason you claim a Christian could not. I am an Epicurist, by that I mean I follow the philosophy of Epicurous. While this is less of a moral code than a plan for living it also precludes rape and murder. An Epicurist would never desire to rape or murder. There are other worldviews as well. Morality is simply the product of upbringing and experience. Yours includes belief in mythology mine does not but they both forbid rape and murder.

        As to your claim that Christians can not be such things, you are engaging in a fallacy called the “no true Scottsman fallacy” You are basically saying no true Christian would do this and then saying that anyone who does it is not a true Christian. Self fulfilling you see. Now you do this because your mythology claims that Christianity has some spiritual meaning apart from simply being a worldview. The problem is that you can in no way show this. Objectively a Christian is simply someone who belongs to the Christian religion. Many of whom are murderers and pedophiles.

      • Nohm that was my opinion as well but I am glad you confirmed it. I am a “cradle atheist” I have never been religious so I don’t have the same experience with it as you. I know many Christians some are good friends but I don’t share their experience. My knowledge of scripture and apologetics comes from in depth study not any actual religious experience or indoctrination.

        I do see that Christians make a lot of claims that, to be as nice as possible, aren’t easy to believe. They seem to know all of these wicked hedonistic atheists that the rest of us never meet. Some claim to be former Satanists which seems a stretch considering Satanists other than metalheads playing around are extremely rare. I also see it with anti choice types that have “my abortion” stories that all follow the exact same script.

        I have heard it called “lying for Jesus” but one could be generous and accept that maybe they are just so heavily indoctrinated they believe what they are saying.

      • May makes a good point. A person cannot be choosing to sin while simutaneously being a Christian. The fruit of the tree (person’s actions) must either be good or evil. A person cannot serve God and Mammon.

        A person can however struggle with sin and still be a Christian.

      • That is the difference between being a Christian and being an atheist. Morality.

        To point out the obvious, the difference between being a Christian and being an atheist is that one believes in the Christian God and the other doesn’t. Morality comes from elsewhere.

        …you can’t be a murderer or a pedophile and be a true Christian.

        But people aren’t divided between True Christians and atheists, are they. There are plenty of Christians (Not True) and even non-Christian theists that murder and molest. Just having a belief in God says nothing about if you’re a moral, ethical person or not. So, no, morality isn’t the difference.

      • Unless God commands you to do morally repugnant things then you can do anything and be a True Christian.

        This is where you pretend God hasn’t commanded his followers to do morally repugnant things.

      • May Murphy:
        You wrote, “Atheism has no moral code so you can be a murderer or a pedophile or a rapist or a criminal etc. That is the difference between being a Christian and being an atheist. Morality.”
        Now I understand the point you’re trying to make but … the ultimate difference is that the Christian has the Spirit of the Living God within and hasn’t based his salvation on being a good person!

      • I agree with you May, atheism has no morale code, its merely a lack of belief in a deity, simple as that. Morality is separate from that and can be attained in several ways.

      • Hi May,

        You wrote: “you can’t be a murderer […] and be a true Christian.

        May, have you ever felt anger towards someone? Even just one time? Steve (i.e., stonethepreacher Steve), what would you call someone that has had anger in their heart at someone even just once?

        So, I’ll ask the following:

        Can you be a liar and be a True Christian?
        Can you be a thief and be a True Christian?
        Can you be a blasphemer and be a True Christian?
        Can you be an adulter/adulteress and be a True Christian?
        Can you be a murderer and be a True Christian?

      • Good point Steve L.

      • May, tell me, how do you tell a “false” christian from any other chrisitan? Because I don’t think you have any way to tell the difference, you only have blind faith.

  9. Hi Ryk,

    You wrote: “I have heard it called “lying for Jesus” but one could be generous and accept that maybe they are just so heavily indoctrinated they believe what they are saying.

    That’s one of the main questions I’ve been chasing for years and I still don’t know the answer for the vast majority of (if not all) believers. I do think that self-indoctrination can play a large part, but I don’t know who’s lying and who’s stating honest beliefs (and I don’t question that there’s a lot of grey in that middle).

  10. As I see it the difficulty most Christians have in understanding atheism is not so much dishonesty or even stupidity it is simply that they misunderstand the term. In my experience they see it as a rejection of Christianity , which is more accurrately a description of Satanism. Atheism, rather than being the opposite of Christianity is the opposite of theism and is just as broad a term. Just as theism includes the worship of any imgaginable God atheism imcludes everyone who does not believe in Gods regardless of their worldview.

    Christians, Hindu, Muslims, Satanists, and Shinto, are all theists yet they are quite different in moral standards and worldview. Similarly my morals and beliefs are not the same as any other random atheist. My worldview would be as similar to another Epicurist as yours is to another Christian, it is however no more similar to a Stalinist or nihilist than yours is to a Satanist or Wiccan.

  11. Hi Nohm:
    Just wanted to say I appreciate the way you address others (Christians) on this site. You’re always polite and of course we can certainly agree to disagree about all matters!

    • Yep. Nohm is a “good” atheist.

      Still, not good enough to get to Heaven…

      • Do you believe that Muslims go to heaven?

        Do you believe that Jewish people go to heaven?

        If you don’t, how can you say your religion is more right that theirs?

      • No.
        No.
        Read your bible.

      • Hardly matters since heaven is imaginary.

      • Steve
        Why would “read your Bible be an answer?” The Bible for one is not authoratative on anything except for your particular mythology. The Jewish faith knows that Jesus is not the Messiah and did not fulfill the prophecies. The Islamic faith would say you are wrong and should read the Koran. I have read and studied the Bible extensively, it is simply another book of mythology. It is certainly distinct form other myths but is in no way more accurate. There is nothing about Christianity or Judaism that is objectively more true than the stories of Jupiter and Odin.

        Certainly places and people from the Bible can be verified as real but that is also true of the Roman and Norse myths. The actual Gods and supernatural events however can not be substantiated outside of the source material, which is not shown to be other than myth.

        The question was “How can you say your religion is more right than theirs.” There is nothing in the Bible that indicates it is.

      • @Steve

        But they have a book that says the same as yours does. What makes your book any more right than theirs?

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