Perspectives: Inside the Mind of a “Radical Sign Guy”

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My posting last week, “Witnessing to Homosexuals,” created no small storm of controversy, especially among the socially liberal, atheistic crowd.

That’s to be expected.

What was curious to me was the rebuke I got from a man named Ruben Israel, a radical “Sign Guy,” who, Glenn Beck “has protested everything from the Mormons to Harley Davidson bike festivals.” He takes a vastly different approach to street preaching than I do and believes that I’m way too soft (to put it mildly) when I share my faith with the gay community.

Through this conversation with Ruben Israel on FACEBOOK you will notice the difference in our approaches. All parties gave me permission to post this conversation, including Dana, a recent graduate of my evangelism class. (The conversation is “as is” except for a little bit of  re-formatting.)

Ruben Israel
What you fail to point out is homosexuals have a parade to celebrate sin.
What city ever hoisted a steal pride parade?
What city every had a lie pride week?
This is a different sinner that walks in the street promoting his sin, demanding the laws change to support his sin. When was the last time murderers demanded us to welcome them as they walked with signs upholding murder.
Your talking to someone at Starbucks vs preaching against a sodomite parade is like apples and oranges, you do understand the difference between witnessing and preaching no?
Do you think all sin is the same sin?
That sin is called ABOMINATION in the Old Testament and REPROBATE in the New Testament. There are degrees of sin as with our laws, a murderer will not be punished the same as someone who stole a candy bar. Both are criminals, both have broken the law yet the penalty is much different BECAUSE ONE CRIME IS GREATER.
Here are a few Biblical examples of degrees of sin and degrees of punishment:
“therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation” Mt.23:14
“as Jesus sat at meat in his house, many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus” Mk.2:15
“Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him” Lk.15:1
–why point out the publicans aside from sinners?—
“My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation” James 3:1

I think you are more concerned with what homosexuals think about you, you need to be more concerned what a Holy God thinks about that sin that parades in public.

Dana Mozena The point of the original post was to state that the people made a decision and a judge overturned it. In addition, the idea of “politely” preaching the Gospel was mentioned. Jesus said that we are to love everyone. Accusatory statements only serve to alienate people. Before we are led to the Lord, we must first come to the realization that we NEED Jesus. Hurling insults at a person just isn’t the way.

Dana Mozena Please re-read what Steve said again and maybe you’ll see where I’m coming from. I too have gay friends, and I both love and respect them. I also believe that when the people make a decision, the courts should uphold it, EITHER way. If t…he law was unconstitutional or violated civil rights, it shouldn’t even have been up for a vote. That said, I’d like for the existing policy of not allowing a “partner” to ride in an ambulance with their loved one to be changed. I don’t believe that’s a law, but a policy… and not treating any loved one with compassion is cruel. Like I said…. love everyone.

Ruben Israel
Love does not mean we embrace them and tell them how much ‘we’ love them. Love is telling them the truth of their lifestyle being an ABOMINATION, it not that the truth? How about loving your friends according to 1John 3:18?
Did Jesus Christ… say himself “As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent” (Rev 3:19)
IF you love your say (as you write) you NEED to REBUKE THEM so they could REPENT.
Stop trying to witness and be their pals TELL THE TRUTH OF THEIR SIN and THAT is the fruit of real love (see Romans 1 for details).

Ruben Israel
I just read your other post…..I can’t believe you write “I too have gay friends, and I both love and respect them”

Does James 4:4 mean ANYTHING to you Dana…….are you a Christian?
“ Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God”
did you read ENEMY OF GOD?

“He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD” Proverbs 17:15

Steve P. Sanchez Ruben, no one ever went to Hell for being gay.

Ruben Israel
If one claims to be Christian and continues in sodomy or fornication he will NOT inherit the kingdom of God. iF you have issues with this you have issues with the New Testament Epistles written to a Churches after the death burial and resurrection, here are just two examples, SEE BIBLE FOR MORE DETAILS.
See 1Co.6:9-10
“Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God”
or Gal 5:19-21
“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God”
did you not read “shall not inherit the kingdom of God”?????
Keep in mind of context means anything these letters were written to churches/saints/believers as per 1Co. 1:2 and Gal 1:2

Steve P. Sanchez My point is that sin is the issue. Yes, homosexuality is one sin, we are in agreement there, but I don’t want to make that the issue. I want them to see their sin—homosexuality included—after I take them through God’s moral law, in a gracious and gentle manner.

Thanks for your understanding! 🙂

Ruben Israel
Yes sin, you live in sin whatever the sin I question if you died that day God will say “Welcome my good and faithful servant” keep this verse in mind in 1Peter 4:18
“And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?” Men like Moses, Jeremiah, Peter, James and Paul were barely saved, do you think the homosexual that marches for his sin in public has a chance?
I say if they are as bold to promote their perversion publicly than be as bold to promote the standard of a Holy God to this ilk. Use words like ABOMINATION and or REPROBATE with them, are not these words found in context to this sin? It seems most beLIEvers are more concerned about turning off sinners that offending a righteous God.

I have a question for you Steve, does God HATE people?

Steve P. Sanchez The difference between our styles might be summed up in this way: At Gay Pride parades, we are in among the crowd handing out thousands of Gospel tracts engaging in one-to-one conversations while the “Sign Guys” shouting judgment and condem…nation at this very same parade, are kept outside. Who’s “method” is more effective in reaching these poor lost sinners?

Please read my article on the West Hollywood gay pride parade to see that we indeed, are preaching a biblical Gospel. We just try to do it with gentleness and respect, like the Bible says. Here’s the link: https://stonethepreacher.com/2009/06/15/pride-goes-before-the-fall-part-1.html

Of course God hates. It’s his righteous anger.

Thanks!

Ruben Israel
You never answered my question Steve, so I will write it slowly for you. Does God HATE PEOPLE His creation? I will make it easy for you:
( ) Yes ( ) No

Hey you believe your way is the right way, then I’m sure your FRUIT CUP runneth over with all thousands (sic) of gospel tracts they take from you, how many have repented? How many are involved in your Church?
How many have you discipled?
How many are even joining you out there witnessing to their own?
How many after you talked with one on one turned around and walked away from the parade route?
How many do you pray with only to have them wallow in sin after you walk away
BUT YOUR WAY IS BETTER THAN BIBLICAL PREACHING right?
Your blogs name is “stone the preacher” but I doubt that will happen.
Ever been beaten for the faith Steve?
Ever been jailed for your faith Steve?
Just what do you consider persecution?
Jesus said in John7:7, “The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil”
The world will only hate you when you testify it is evil, not tickle the ears.

Steve P. Sanchez But I did answer your question in my previous reply (you may not have read the whole comment). 🙂

My cup does run over.

God’s Word never returns void so my Gospel is 100% effective. Since salvation is from the Lord, I feel completely at ease in fulfilling my responsibility to plant and water seed.

Thanks for asking!

Ruben Israel
No, I read you post the first time complete.
Steve just WHO does this God that we preach hate?

Steve P. Sanchez All who refuse to believe in Him. We are in agreement, here. In an area, like the gay pride parade, i choose to focus on the other sins, the sins we all have in common as a bridge to get them to understand their state before God. Yes, homosexuality is sin. It certainly isn’t the primary sin that sends people to Hell, though.

By the way, would you mind if I post our conversation on my blog as is? This would be a great teaching tool for the evangelists, Christians, atheists and gays who visit daily?

Ruben Israel
[Steve’s]response: “All who refuse to believe in Him. We are in agreement, here. In an area, like the gay pride parade, i choose to focus on the other sins, the sins we all have in common as a bridge to get them to understand their state before God..
***Now did I understand you correctly, did you just state that you did not want to discuss homosexuals AT A HOMO parade? Does timing mean anything to you Steve? THIS is the time, THIS is the place to make what God thinks of this particular sin known. HELLO…..??….these people are PROUD of their sin and you look the other way??
So you bring a football to a hockey game and want to play baseball?***

[Steve’s response]:Yes, homosexuality is sin. It certainly isn’t the primary sin that sends people to Hell, though.
***Not just sin Steve, can you say ‘ABOMANATION’ Steve, do you understand just what that word means? I just posted a response on degrees of sin and degrees of judgment I hope you read that and if you are withholding what God considers just for the sake of common ground, you are lacking in the Ambassador Department.
PREACH THE FULL CHARACTER OF GOD****

[Steve’s response]: By the way, would you mind if I post our conversation on my blog as is? This would be a great teaching tool for the evangelists, Christians, atheists and gays who visit daily?”
***No problem please do so, if God will judge EVERY IDOL WORD, why not put out a post as we sharpen iron***

Steve P. Sanchez An ambassador is tactful and gracious. I try my best to do both.

When questioned about homosexuality, and the question almost always comes up, I don’t shrink back from telling them what God says about it. To me, at a Gay Pride parade, it’s like poking them in the eye to shout against homosexuality. May i remind you, we are actually inside the parade, while the Caustic Judgmental Wrathful Evangelists are barred at the entrance, sometimes with a police cordon around them.

Gays already know what the bible says because of the many hateful Christians, who, with undiplomatic methods, preach unloving, hateful message focusing only on the sin of homosexuality?

Again, nobody ever went to Hell for being a homosexual. They go there because of their sin, homosexuality is one of those sins.

Reuben, do you love these people? A few of the words you used to describe those who are gay are very disrespectful, words like “fruit cup” and “HOMO” parade. we are commanded to let our conversations be “full of grace and seasoned with salt.” Catherine Booth, wife of the founder of the Salvation Army said, ““If you haven’t got tears in your eyes, let them hear tears in your voice.”

Do you cry for them, weep over them like Jesus did for Jerusalem?
Do you plead with them to fall on God’s mercy because they under his wrath? Or do you only focus on his judgment?

Reuben, it sounds to me like you may need to be a bit more grace in your approach.

Thanks!

UPDATE: This conversation is still ongoing. I mistakenly thought that it was over but Ruben contacted me to point out that he has been busy in the field. As the conversation continues, it will be posted in the comments section starting from here.

So, what did you think of this exchange? Does Ruben have a good point? Am I in the wrong here? I’d like to hear from you.

Comments (117)

  2. Mike F

    Reply

    Steve, showing love and respect does get you in a position that your message is heard. To me yelling that they are sinners just causes them to reject you and whatever you have to say. I have had gays thank me for not putting them down, but lovingly taking the time to explain sin. I think one on one evangelism works the best. Also I think when you street preach you are doing it in a respectful manner. I am turned off most of the time by the ‘sign guys.’ Keep up the good work.

  3. Dennis Liebregt

    Reply

    I am 100% behind you on this one Steve. The key is that we have been INSIDE these events such as the anti-war protest, Chinese New Year parade, Rose Parade, etc etc.
    And at each event we see the “sign guys” standing OUTSIDE the event turning people off from the Gospel of peace and the Gospel of grace.
    IF Jesus didn’t come into the world to CONDEMN the world then who does this Ruben guy think he is??? Jesus said the world stands condemned already so all we have to do is point out to people they have violated God’s Law (written on our hearts) by taking them through the 10 Commandments and let the Law do its work of bringing conviction of sin which by God’s grace will lead to repentance.
    I kind of chuckled at Ruben’s comment about preaching the “full character of God” while he continually points out only the WRATH of God. Seems to me he should go back and try to read some of the many verses that testify to the grace, patience, and love of God.
    Anyways, our evangelism at these events is to engage people in 1-2-1 conversations which you can’t very well do when you rub lemons in an open wound by saying oh by the way you are going to burn in Hell for eternity because you are a homosexual? Um.. yeah that conversation wouldn’t go very well. Much better to go through the Commandments the way Jesus did and that way you can still mention that if God judges them on Judgment day they would end up in Hell. That would make a lot more sense than saying hey you’re an abomination to God as Ruben is suggesting we do. Sorry buddy – try coming out with the group sometime and maybe you’ll see there is another way to reach people other than a “hate” sign.
    Also I can personally testify that Steve preaches the whole counsel of God and doesn’t just “tickle people’s ears” as Ruben suggested.
    We do warn people of the wrath of God but we try to do it graciously not obnoxiously with an incomplete sign.

  4. cranium

    Reply

    If you, Ruben, or anyone else wish to continue to assert that homosexuality is a sin and against god’s will, perhaps you need to address the many other factors against which the bible is even more strident yet are overlooked or shrugged off. There is no hell because there is no heaven because there are no deities, but if there were a hell, people like Ruben would be amongst the first to arrive there.

  5. Paul Latour

    Reply

    Your final response says it all, Steve. I’m with you all the way. I understand where Rueben is coming from, but I don’t like his his approach. He offers law but no grace on his sign or in his tone in writing.

    I have to wonder if you offered him a stone, would he chuck it at the homosexual? If so, you may as well chuck one at me for I am no better a man. Better off in the longrun, yes. But, that only by the grace of God, through Christ.

    So, in response to this wonderful grace extended to me by God, who has every right and reason to condemn me forever, I will take every opportunity I can to share the good news of what Jesus did on the cross, FIRMLY, YET IN A SPIRIT AND TONE OF LOVE AND CONCERN, to anyone who would care to receive, by voice or by tract, that they, too, NO MATTER WHAT KIND OF SINNER THEY ARE, may have opportunity to reflect, repent and come to faith in Jesus Christ for their redemption and eternal salvation.

  7. Joey

    Reply

    Paul said, “I have to wonder if you offered him a stone, would he chuck it at the homosexual? If so, you may as well chuck one at me for I am no better a man. Better off in the longrun, yes. But, that only by the grace of God, through Christ.”

    Have you read the Bible Paul?

    If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. – Leviticus 20:13

    God doesn’t mince words here. If you believe in the Bible then shouldn’t you be killing homosexuals instead of witnessing to them? The Bible says absolutely nothing about sharing the gospel with people who are gay.

    My question is why do Christians think they should follow the first part of that verse, but ignore the last part?

    Do you guys know what God wants better than He does?

  8. Michael Cooper (gypsydisciple)

    Reply

    I use Signs on some days and some times I use the way of the master good person test sign. Some times I open air preach. I have worked with Ruben Israel a few times. One things for sure no matter how I do the great commission I all ways face critics from inside and out side the faith. You can’t please everyone and you should not even try all that counts is whats God thinks of the way you preach but to say your way is the only right is wrong. If the bible backs it up get out and do it! Isaiah 58:1 “Shout it aloud, do not hold back. Raise your voice like a trumpet. Declare to my people their rebellion and to the house of Jacob their sins

    1 cor 4:3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by a human court. In fact, I do not even judge myself. 4 For I know of nothing against myself, yet I am not justified by this; but He who judges me is the Lord. 5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness and reveal the counsels of the hearts. Then each one’s praise will come from God.

    I have had people inside and out side the church say that using money to draw people in is wrong using the law is wrong the good person test is tricking people. Some even say using humor has no place in the gospel and on and on it never stops. My newest sign read Hell is a horrible place no warning is to strong….That’s my story and I am sticking to it!

  9. Brian Yearicks

    Reply

    Steve,

    I must say that what works the best is not always the way to share the gospel.
    The Gospel is what it is (pure, perfect, and sufficient for bringing a sinner to salvation.
    I suggest that if an abomination is worse than a sin, we are all in trouble. Take a look at Proverbs 6:16-19. Have you ever told a lie? LOL

  10. Katie

    Reply

    Steve, I agree with you 100%. I debated jumping into this conversation on your wall, but hesitate to when it’s on someone else’s wall. I know you are faithful to the gospel, have a gentle but firm presentation and love the lost. It shows Steve. Your conversations with the lost are sincerely and loving and that is the big difference between you and people like Reuben. We are just beggars trying to show another beggar where to find bread. Rather than judge the lost, I’d prefer to open up the scriptures to show them that God will judge them and then tell them about Jesus. Yelling and condemning people will get us nowhere. May God bless you and your efforts Steve.

  11. BathTub

    Reply

    Joey, don’t you understand? Being a Christian means you pick which parts of the bible you like despite Jesus saying none of the Law will pass away. Homos, Bad. Bacon Good! Shaving, fine. Mixed Fabrics, Fine. Sabbath, Who cares.

    Yeah so it’s mostly the Gays they care about these days.

    So once you’ve pointed out the sinfulness of the Gays, pretend that the only law than now counts is your favourite version of the 10 Commandments (just pick one). Ignoring the bits about the Sabbath and False Witness and hope they don’t notice the lack of mention of the Gay in any of them.

    Then you really have the Pick & Mix Christian thing down.

  12. Steve Sanchez

    Reply

    BathTub, I’ll get back to you on your concerns about “Pick and Choose” Chritianity later, with what I hope will be a sufficient answer. Just can’t do it right now. Your objections are justified; I think you may just need a little explanation.

  13. Joey

    Reply

    Steve said, “Your objections are justified; I think you may just need a little explanation.”

    I think we all need an explanation. Christians say that the Bible is the inerrant infallible word of God. When I went to church we were taught that to ignore just one Bible verse is as bad as ignoring the whole thing, and as Bathtub pointed out Jesus said none of the laws will pass away which gives Christians no excuses for disobeying the Old Testament.

    Anyway here is a very incomplete list of Bible verse that nearly all Christians ignore:

    Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
    – 1 Corinthians 14:34-5

    If you let a woman speak in church you are ignoring one of God’s laws.

    Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.
    -Exodus 21:17

    If your child calls you a cuss word and you react by slitting his throat, then you have made God very pleased.

    Anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD must be put to death. The entire assembly must stone him. Whether an alien or native-born, when he blasphemes the Name, he must be put to death.
    -Leviticus 24:16

    Steve, I know you’ve witnessed to people who took part in the blasphemy challenge. Where in the Bible does it say you should witness to blasphemers and try to turn them towards Christ? It seems like the only instruction God gives regarding blasphemers is to slowly and brutally murder them.

    For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death.
    -Exodus 31:15

    Why do Christians fight so hard to keep gay marriage illegal yet they don’t fight to give the death penalty to the employees working the Sunday shift at McDonald’s. God is much more clear in his stance on people working on the Sabbath than he is on who should and shouldn’t get married.

    I would really like a good explanation from someone as to how we’re supposed to know which verses God wants us to obey and which ones He wants us to ignore. It was actually sitting down and reading the Bible that made me lose my faith.

  14. Dan Beaudoin

    Reply

    Steve,
    I agree completely. There is a similar group in my area that I have run into on the streets. In fact, they are one of the first links on Ruben’s link page. They preach judgment, and anger, and hate, and turning to Jesus (i.e. – God hates you, why don’t you turn to him?). But I’ve noticed that the piece that is frequently missing is the preaching of the cross, and substitutionary atonement. Without the cross, the whole thing becomes just an exercise in legalism. Recently wrote my own blog on the same subject. 🙂

  15. waynedawg

    Reply

    My ministry partner and I talked to several sign guys while we were down in New Orleans witnessing during Mardi Gras.

    We also had the opportunity to talk to a few gay people and ask them what they thought of the sign guys.

    Each side sounded like they hated the other.

    I witnessed to a couple young gay girls and started the conversation with, “what do you think about those guys over there with the signs?”

    After letting them rant for about ten minutes I was able to calmly witness to them for about 45 minutes. We had a conversation. We had dialog. I was able to take them through the law and the gospel and one of the girls was under major conviction, but, in the end, did not respond to my pleas of repenting and trusting Christ….that day.

    Maybe that was the first day God starts drawing her to Himself.

  16. Ruben Israel

    Reply

    Update your blog and be fair.
    Hey Steve. you got something WAY wrong gain but I expecting this from you.
    On your blog, you seem to left that I have not responded back to you as if I ran away, can you be longsuffering for there is reason.
    Let me make this clear because Jesus hath not told you. After work this week I have been preaching at concerts, as per Lady Ga Ga (Wed-Thur) American Idol (tonight) Billy Idol (Sat) and with that said, I have no time for the computer. I thought that since you had a much better relationship with Jesus than those “sign guys” that maybe the Lord would have told you I was busy in the field? not to mention I get over 100 emails daily from my website and Street Preachers worldwide so you are not the only person I respond to via email.
    Therefore I might get a chance to respond maybe Saturday or Sunday, so update your website with your quick to judgment or lack thereof on thinking this was over.

    Ruben Israel
    http://www.officialstreetpreachers.com/

  17. Beniah

    Reply

    Most of you people are operating from a Neo-evangelical, Law of attraction mode…your presentation of the Gospel is man centered and you subscribe to the teachings and philosophy of Norman Vincent Peale.
    Your so-called defense of “niceness” is pathetically out of touch with the first three chapters of the Book of Revelation where we actually find the POST resurrection Jesus REBUKING the likes of YOU and those who follow your line of neo-evangelical thinking!

    Hosea Chapter 9 is meant for you…especially Verse 15

    Read it and weep…the Lord hates your neo-evangelical, greasy grace presentation of the Truth.

  18. GraceAlone

    Reply

    @Joey, context context context that’s all I can say on that.
    @Steve, I love ya’ brother and appreciate what you do. I think that Ruben Israel has some good points about the “steal parade” etc. I also agree that sin is treated differently therefore should be treated differently by us as well. Our styles are one thing, and I know when you are asked you do give the whole councel of God. Yet, Steve, I do believe you are a little on the “weak” side. Yes, we love, but there are times we must be “harsh” in their eyes.

    Also Steve it isn’t up to us to say things like, “Do you cry for them, weep over them like Jesus did for Jerusalem?” Honestly, you are sounding like Ruben here.

    @ Ruben Israel, I didn’t care for your comment about “fruit cup” and such, and you had my total attention through your responses, yet that hit me as…”odd”. We agree on many areas.

    Now for my “comment” I feel like a pair of brown shoes on a tuxedo as George Goble once said.

    Does not the Gospel cut as a two edged sword? Is it not to call those that are the elect home and condemn those that are not? That is pretty harsh no matter how “loving” you may put it.

    Another thing…is not our GOD sovereign? Does He not have His own plan? Are not both Steve and Ruben out there by GOD’s hand? What one man reaches by the hand of GOD may not reach another. We must as the body of Christ understand that it is not “our way” but Christ’s way.

    Now saying all of that, having “such” sinners in my family, I doubt anything will bring them back to Christ save Him alone. When we are told that He gives them over to a reprobate mind, it is just that…you want your lustful sin….GO FOR IT! Now at that point does GOD hate them?

    @Dana Lastly, I am not sure how you can have friends that are gay and to say you respect them. For what? I find it curious that they are still your friends. It is not that we push them away or be unkind to them…it is just that ususally can’t stand the child of GOD and are convicted by the Holy Spirit just being around us. IMOHO, I think that’s GOD’s way of ridding us of the corupting elements in our lives.

  19. Steve Sanchez

    Reply

    To Ruben: My apologies.

    I understand that our work can take us from the computers. When you have the time, please continue to respond. I updated the post to reflect that the conversation is ongoing and that people can read the updates here in the comments section. I provided a link to your first comment so people can know where our dialogue continues.

    I’m finding this discussion very enlightening and helpful. How about you?

    Oh, and I never said that I have a better relationship with Jesus, just a different method of evangelism that is a bit gentler when conversing with “sinners.”

  20. SeedSowerJoy

    Reply

    Michael Cooper said: ” My newest sign reads ‘ Hell is a horrible place’ No warning is too strong.”

    1)Hell is ONLY a “horrible place” to those who believe in heaven and hell. If I were not a Christian, my reaction to that message would probably be “but I don’t believe there IS a hell” or “how do you KNOW it’s a horrible place? Ever BEEN there? Know anyone who has, and came back to tell you about it?

    2)MOST people who believe there is a heaven, hell, God and Jesus, ALSO believe they are ” a GOOD person” or “not as bad as ________(fill in the blank). Your sign won’t let them know that we ALL fall short of the glory of God and that, unless they repent, and put their trust in our Lord Jesus, they WILL spend enternity in that “horrible pace”

    Are we not called to proudly proclaim God’s love and mercy and His free gift of slavation and eternal life, which all sinners may receive if they repent? The Bible says, if we don’t TELL them about the gospel, how will they KNOW?

    If your sign doesn’t tell them, how WILL they know?

  21. Joey

    Reply

    GraceAlone said. “Joey, context context context that’s all I can say on that.”

    You can’t just say the word context and make the Bible verses I listed go away. Explain to me how the context changes the meaning the the Bible verses.

    Do the Christians on here not realize that if you can’t explain why you ignore the Bible verses I listed then you’re living a lie?

    • Doulos

      Reply

      Nice reach Joey, but context does mean everything. I will address the passages in Exodus and Leviticus that you cited first. Starting around Chapter 20 of Exodus, God was not only communicating His Law, but also establishing the Nation of Israel. So, He communicated not only the Law, but the criminal penalties that the authorities in the Nation were to enforce in that nation. Their was no seperation of church and state in ancient Israel, the religion (church) was the State. A lot of Exodus, Leviticus, and Deuteronomy involved setting up jurisprudence and a criminal justice system for the Jewish people (nation of Israel). God still has the Law and an operating death penalty for violating those laws, but did provide a perfect appeal mechanism at the Cross.

      God’s standard remains and he will judge us accordingly, but the only persons that should be concerned about not killing their kids for backtalk, or capital punishment for working on sunday or blasphemy would be the Israeli criminal justice system. That is especially true, considering that Jews have ignored the grace offered up for 2,000 years now and don;t really even take their own laws that seriously anymore.

      The passage from I Corinthians were specific intructions for how christian group fellowship should be handled. In and among the passage about keeping the ladies silent during church are instructions to not have more than 3 tongues spoken during the services (and requiring interpretations of the tongues spoken), how to handle the sharing of the meal (communion) and other instructions for conducting what we would call “church services” today. The issue this instruction addressed was the near constant interuption of whomever was speaking by women asking questions or asking for explanations about what was getting preached or taught. A more proper translation would be “women should not interrupt the preaching or teaching publicly, but should ask their husbands for explanantions later on in the home”.

      Context and setting does mean something, sir.

  22. Richard Chavarria

    Reply

    Signs that say you’re going to hell are wrong in my view. The Bible says “…as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience”.

    Can’t get any conversions to Christ in any arena unless people get a chance to hear the gospel preached. You need to preach the bad news and then the good news.

    Jesus Christ came to fulfill the Law. We are free of the requirements of the Law. We as believers need to exercise the fruits of the Spirit.

    We are commanded to Love one another…as Christ has loved us.

  23. Gary Carter

    Reply

    Steve;

    I think you have the right attitude and approach. Did Jesus stand with a sign condemning sinners? NO! He dined with them.. One2One IS the way Jesus approached sinners. He only condemned the false teachers and hypocrites, never sinners..

    Love ya Brother.

  24. Joey

    Reply

    My point is that if Christians are going to ignore the Bible verses I listed then they might as well ignore the whole thing. No one takes the Bible literally, and for a good reason too. Taking the Bible literally would land you in jail.

  25. GraceAlone

    Reply

    @Joey, do you remember the part about me being brown shoes?
    You have to know the time and setting in which the event was written about, who wrote it, what were the traditions at the time…on and on and on.
    You prove scripture by scripture, not plucking one thing out and sayng “Hey, what about this”. Usually Joey, it is from the non-believer that doesn’t understand that we sinned against a Holy and Righteous GOD and that we will be held to His standard and not ours.
    So Joey, find your own answers on the subject by reading your Bible and learning about that period of time. Which in the end without understanding how GOD views sin means absolutely nothing.
    In saying that, know that I nor Steve, nor the “Sign Man” can open your eyes to heavenly things…that is the work of the Holy Spirit…I know…I know…it just doesn’t make sense to you…It is impossible.
    Hey, Tuxedo man aka “Steve” give this guy an answer to all his “questions” I’m putting the brown shoes to bed, I should have know better than come to a street fight in my pjs.

  27. Garrett

    Reply

    That’d be an excellent point, GraceAlone, except that we’re constantly told about the absolute morality of God. The time period becomes irrelevant if your morals are rigid and unchanging. Rape is just peachy if you got the shekels.

  28. Val

    Reply

    Christ means, “anointed one.” Jesus said, “the Spirit of the Lord is upon Me because He has anointed Me to preach the gospel…” According to Jesus, the anointing is for preaching the gospel. The spirit of anti-christ is working in the church on one end through a spirit of “anti-preach,” some churches coining the term “preach the gospel, and if you have to, use words.” Of course they mean we must live godly, but because the anointing is for preaching, it is a religious spirit of anti-christ. Churches like this will discourage preaching the gospel to common people, and insist to keep preaching “in the church. It is a spirit of anti-christ. On the other end, if satan cannot hold Christians back from the call to preach, he will push, push, PUSH!! And the result is the spirit of “anti-love.” Satan knows “love never fails!” Only the message of God’s love leads people to trust in God. People don’t trust their soul to God without KNOWING it will be safe in His hands. A no-brainer… Only through being loved is a human being capable of love. Only by explaining the cross, not just saying He loves you, but preaching the love in an expanation of the cross, can a person know the love of God for the first time. It is the reason for the anointing on us. Beware of the spirit of anti-christ.

  29. John McGlone

    Reply

    Dan, you act like telling people what the Bible says is a problem. Well, if you think that Ruben or any of the open air preachers I know and love leave out the cross, then you are just giving a false testimony or not listening long enough to find out.

    Do they preach hard? Yes. Did Jesus preach hard, yes.

  30. Bill

    Reply

    If God commanded me to make a model of my city and depict it as being under attack, and then lay on my left side for 390 days and then lay on my right side for 40 days, most people would assume I was insane. When Ezekiel did it (Ezekiel 4) he was merely being obedient.

    As many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God (Romans 8:14). I’ve been criticized for my evangelism techniques (as we all have) enough that I’ve decided that I will not criticize other Christians for their methods unless they are obviously unbiblical. Neither Steve’s nor Ruben’s methods are unbiblical. We are all responsible to God for our attitude.

    Another thing I would add is that I would tend to call a lot of what Ruben does prophecy (proclaiming truth) rather than evangelism.

  31. Tony Y

    Reply

    Mr Israel:

    I think we need to be careful not to overstep our mandate. Our mandate is to spread the Gospel and not to play the role of God who sits in final judgment. In His earthly ministry, Jesus himself did not come to condemn. Our authority and mandate surely cannot exceed that of Jesus’.

    John 3:17
    For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

    Jesus was famous / infamous for hanging out with sinners (prostitutes, tax collectors, etc.). Would you criticize your Lord for being too soft?

    When you say “Love does not mean we embrace them and tell them how much ‘we’ love them. Love is telling them the truth of their lifestyle being an ABOMINATION…” you are setting up a false dichotomy. Your argument presupposes that we can either show love OR speak the truth. However our LORD, speaking through Paul, commands us to do both – to speak the truth in love. He commands us to show love AND tell the truth simultaneously.

    Ephesians 4:15
    But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

    I also find it interesting that you mention that we should not “embrace” homosexuals. I evangelized the gay pride parade this year. On my very first encounter, I spoke to two women who I thought were a lesbian couple who claimed to be Christian. I tried my best to be both loving and honest about sin. I shared with them that they were rejecting their Lord because they loved their sin more. I handed them a print out of John 3:16, 18-21. They even agreed to read the verses out loud.

    In the middle of this conversation one of the ladies said something to the effect “Thank you for coming to speak to us today. I was struggling with something and trying to make a decision. It was no accident that you spoke to us today.”

    After our conversation I hugged both of them. Is a hug more or less “intimate” than allowing a prostitute to pour perfume on your feet and allowing her to wipe your feet with her hair? Without shame, I tell you that I hugged many homosexuals and exhorted them to turn from their lifestyle that day.

    Now, I don’t know if they repented after that. I don’t know what decision that woman was trying to make. I pray that they did repent and come (back?) to the LORD. Only God knows. Maybe I’m reading too much into that woman’s comment. I do strongly suspect this: my gentle and honest exhortation probably had more affect that day than your signs.

    You mockingly ask Pastor Steve how many have repented. Have your signs bore much fruit?

    One last point. Jesus never really seemed to have much anger for most sinners. He “loved” the rich young ruler who rejected Him. He fellowhipped with Judas for years and even fed Judas by hand right before Judas betrayed Him. He interceded on behalf of the woman caught in adultery. The only group he seemed to show much anger for were the self-righteous; the pharisees.

    With the same amount of restraint and love as I showed the homosexuals at the gay pride parade, Mr. Israel, I urge you to repent of your ways. The only difference is that I find it easier to hug the homosexuals than it is to hug you.

  32. Pierre Cordero Feb 20, 2010

    Reply

    @ Mr Israel and every one else in this conversation:
    I do not agree that any style is better than the other of spreading God’s word. Some would say our style from the way of the master is to harsh, maybe not you Mr. Israel lol, but I am just making a point here. If they did criticize our style we would try to defend it and I applaud you for that Mr. Israel. If the spirit leads you to do this and you are out there speaking scripture, so be it, who am I or anyone to tell you it is wrong. Arguing about who is doing a better job or if one way is better than the other is silly, both are biblical, both reach different people and the work is getting done. This discussion reminds me of a scripture :

    Mark 9:
    38And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
    39But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
    40For he that is not against us is on our part.
    41For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.

    There are some people who will be reached with a subtle approach and some that will be reached with an aggressive approach. We need not judge each other or mock one another because this is falling into the trap of the evil one and full of pride. Not one of us is good all have fallen short of the glory of God, no matter how manny days we have gone preaching, or tracts we have given out, nothing can cover up our shame. There are good points made in this discussion but the one thing I do understand is that Jesus befriended sinners and eat with them. It did not specify if there where homosexuals there or not. It said sinners, so using this as an example I believe it is ok to spend time with sinners and get to know them. This may be one of those people that a sign on the street does not work with. We all are different and to think God has only one way to reach the lost is silly. He calls us to be light and for the light to shine on men. If i had a close gay friend who got to see how I live everyday then that could also be a tool for God’s glory. I must voice though how I feel to that gay friend and warn of what the bible teaches to that friend, that is true Mr. Israel. I cant just tell them I am Christian, I need to warn them of the consequences of their sin, just like I would do to all my friends.

    Matthew 9:10While Jesus was having dinner at Matthew’s house, many tax collectors and “sinners” came and ate with him and his disciples. 11When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and ‘sinners’?”

    We must be carful to not be like the Pharisees. Last point I believe that love is telling people the truth but God describes love as:

    1 Corinthians 13

    Love

    1If I speak in the tongues[a] of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames,[b] but have not love, I gain nothing.
    4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

    We can be patient, we can be kind, we can not be rude and still show love to unbelievers. Again Mr. Israel I am glad you are doing what you are doing and would never tell you that your style is wrong, but I felt compelled to write something because this conversation just by reading it felt full of pride and bitterness. We are all on the same team and should respect one another and realize God’s word is being spread, and we our believers who are out in the field, thats something to respect alone, because we are so few! With all due love and respect Pierre Cordero!

  33. Aaron

    Reply

    Ruben Israel,

    It appears that you are a friend of Jesse Morell, a heretic and wolf in sheep’s clothing who like yourself uses “shock and awe” tacticts to gather crowds and draw attention to himself. You do have a picture of him on your website. I have a few questions for you:

    1) Do you regard Pelagius as a man of God?
    2) Do you believe the doctrines of Pelagius and Charles Finney?
    3) Are you an Open Theist?
    4) Do you believe one can be sinlessly perfect in this life?

    Please give us a clear and concise answer so we know where you stand doctrinally. The Scriptures admonish us to not even eat or have fellowship with a heretic (Titus 3:10, 2 John 1:10-11).

    I’ll await your reply.

  34. Ruben Israel

    Reply

    THIS IS A RESPONSE FROM RUBEN ISRAEL FROM FACEBOOK:

    PART 1
    Ok, Steven sorry for the delay on my part but I was about the Father’s business, see: SUMMER TIME IS CONCERT TIME
    http://officialstreetpreachers.blogspot.com/ for exploits.

    My response ***

    Steve wrote:
    “An ambassador is tactful and gracious. I try my best to do both.

    ***WRONG ANSWER, as an Ambassador we speak on behalf of the King/king/ruler/president/queen/dictator/etc. not our personal agenda. I have never been a homosexual, I have never been molested, I have never been wronged by a sodomite on a business deal, my relationship to this ilk is what a Holy God says and with that I will proclaim repentance from an “abomination” and “reprobate” lifestyle. I do not wish to be politically correct nor do I care what anyone thinks, I will uphold the standard of my God. Forgivness given upon fruit meet for repentance***

    When questioned about homosexuality, and the question almost always comes up, I don’t shrink back from telling them what God says about it. To me, at a Gay Pride parade, it’s like poking them in the eye to shout against homosexuality.

    ***WRONG! It is the issue at hand, what a better way to proclaim what God says about this particular sin. One day preaching against homosexuals could be illegal, we can always preach the Ray Comfort method, ‘work while it is still light’ be salt a preserve the standard of God now***

    May i remind you, we are actually inside the parade, while the Caustic Judgmental Wrathful Evangelists are barred at the entrance, sometimes with a police cordon around them.

    ***May I inform you, since Jesus had not that we also speak with homosexuals one on one, that we have prayed with them, answered their questions. It is the outloud preaching that will provoke response see 1 Cor.1:18 “For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God”

    Who cares if they accuse us of being hateful are you telling me that you will use ‘heathen’ to spot check if someone is preaching for God, is that how you judge a matter?

    I will respond to your “Judgmental Wrathful Evangelists are barred at the entrance, sometimes with a police cordon around them” “IDLE WORDS” later***

    Gays already know what the bible says because of the many hateful Christians, who, with undiplomatic methods, preach unloving, hateful message focusing only on the sin of homosexuality?

    ***Maybe because that is the group we are preaching too…..HELLO….????…..earth to Steve….if we were preaching to Catholics, I would preach about the worship of idols, if it were Mardi Gras, I would preach on drunkenness, if it were a concert, I would preach against idle time but you seem to want to preach a eulogy at a wedding. Jesus did cite Sodom, we find Sodom in the Epistles all in context to fire and judgment, but I guess you have a new way than what God says?****

    Again, nobody ever went to Hell for being a homosexual. They go there because of their sin, homosexuality is one of those sins.

    ***Gee Steve that sounds nice but you have not Biblical position. You can not separate the sin from the sinner, God does not put the sin of homosexually into the Lake of Fire but sodomites****

    Reuben, do you love these people? A few of the words you used to describe those who are gay are very disrespectful, words like “fruit cup” and “HOMO” parade.

    ***I love them 1John 3:18 style, which is I tell them the TRUTH (which is love) couple that with a rebuke Rev. 3:19 (which is love).
    Regarding the word ‘HOMO’ that is the term they use, read the signs they carry in their parades.

    Regarding “fruit cup” re-read what I was responding too, I was not talking about homosexuals but replying to how you way is the best way. Therefore WHERE IS YOUR FRUIT from that statement, do you have the gay community repenting from all your conversations and hundreds of tracts passed out? Are there now ex-homosexuals going to your Church, you must have numerous testimonies, hence “your FRUIT CUP runneth over.” Please RE-read and add context to that statement.***

    We are commanded to let our conversations be “full of grace and seasoned with salt.” Catherine Booth, wife of the founder of the Salvation Army said, ““If you haven’t got tears in your eyes, let them hear tears in your voice.”


    ***You want Catherine, well here she is:
    “Many do not recognize the fact as they ought, that Satan has got men fast asleep in sin and that it is his great device to keep them so. He does not care what we do if he can do that. We may sing songs about the sweet by and by, preach sermons and say prayers until doomsday, and he will never concern himself about us, if we don’t wake anybody up. But if we awake the sleeping sinner he will gnash on us with his teeth. This is our work – to wake people up.”

    “Who cares who frowns, if God smiles.”

    Let us not forget William:
    “Not called!” did you say? “Not heard the call,” I think you should say. Put your ear down to the Bible, and hear Him bid you go and pull sinners out of the fire of sin. Put your ear down to the burdened, agonized heart of humanity, and listen to its pitiful wail for help. Go stand by the gates of hell, and hear the damned entreat you to go to their father’s house and bid their brothers and sisters and servants and masters not come there. Then look Christ in the face — whose mercy you have professed to obey — and tell Him whether you will join heart and soul and body and circumstances in the march to publish His mercy to the world.”****

    Do you cry for them, weep over them like Jesus did for Jerusalem?
    Do you plead with them to fall on God’s mercy because they under his wrath? Or do you only focus on his judgment?

    ***What I do is within my prayer closet and THAT I will not boast on. If you wish to speak on how often you cry, I suspect to be seen of men. Keep that private and the Father will bless it openly***

    Reuben, it sounds to me like you may need to be a bit more grace in your approach.

    ***Thank you could always add grace but allow this older ox in the field to give you a lesion on outdoor preaching.
    It is only a young pompous, one dimensional and without discernment believer that thinks all preaching should be done his way. What’s next only their tracts? Now here is the way a spiritual man judges the matter. When a sinner dies, that sinner had every possible scenario to get saved. God offered him those that talk with them, invites them to Church, leaves tracts from them, knocks on their doors, sings to them, those that witness to them, even those that try and befriend that sinner…….AND even send large big burly men with large banners, mega-horns preaching a hard message. Because at the end of the day, that sinner heard the full gospel. That Steve is the way a mature Christian will judge the matter, for one way is not above the other. It is a cult-mindset that demands everyone to do as they do. Imagine if our military would fight against itself for not wearing the same color or type of uniform? To that I say, WATCH YOUR FRIENDY FIRE!

    Now here is a question regarding a Biblical message.
    I challenge both you and your readers to show me THREE Bible verses in any Gospel where we find Jesus preaching in public saying “God loves you” or THREE verses in the Book of Acts where any Apostle preached in public “Jesus Loves You.”
    ……..you know what Steve, I feel lucky, just give me TWO verses in any of the four the Gospels and TWO verses in any of the 28 chapters from the acts of those men. I mean it is sooooo common that I’m sure you can dig those verses up in no time.
    Ok, me thinketh I’m ready to go out on a limp with this one……are you ready……can you or your readers produce ONE, just ONE, une, uno, eins, hana, just 1 verse where our Lord promoted the Love of God outdoors and where the Apostles preached “Jesus loved you” in public. I will respectfully and patiently await your response***

  35. Steve Sanchez

    Reply

    I never tell a sinner that God loves him. Not even once. It’s only in the context of the cross that God shows his love. While we were yet sinners, Christ dies for us.

    In fact, not once is the word “Love” used in the book of Acts. We’re in agreement there.

    It’s all a question of attitude, Ruben. Attitude. What’s your attitude toward these “sinners”?

  36. Steve Sanchez

    Reply

    To Joey: Here’s a nutshell version to your questions that basically ask, “What about these verses?” Here are the verses he listed:

    Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
    – 1 Corinthians 14:34-5

    This is applicable and allows Godly order in the church. Too many times men remain silent and women take charge. When a woman does this, remaining silence, they are showing reverence to their Savior and submission to their husbands. Men really need to step up and lead, loving their wives as Christ loved the church, and to not be harsh with them. It’s about Godly order. Do we demand this enforcement of the policy in our church? No. We are very gracious. A godly woman knows the right thing to do, like my wife. I want her to ask me a question first. I’m her husband, her priest and shepherd.

    Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.
    -Exodus 21:17

    If your child calls you a cuss word and you react by slitting his throat, then you have made God very pleased.

    Anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD must be put to death. The entire assembly must stone him. Whether an alien or native-born, when he blasphemes the Name, he must be put to death.
    -Leviticus 24:16

    Steve, I know you’ve witnessed to people who took part in the blasphemy challenge. Where in the Bible does it say you should witness to blasphemers and try to turn them towards Christ? It seems like the only instruction God gives regarding blasphemers is to slowly and brutally murder them.

    For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death.
    -Exodus 31:15

    We are in the Age of grace. As for all these Laws , they were written for the Jews. Jesus pointed out that unless their righteousness EXCEEDS that of the Pharisees they won’t make. So if you are a Jew, you must keep these Laws to be saved. Obviously no one can or will. The Jewish people were to be Holy unto the Lord, an example to the pagan nations around them These laws were harsh.

    Did you ever read about a child being put to death by the way, in the Bible?

    The OT Laws don’t apply to pagans, but the Moral Law, the 10 Commandments do. Every commandment is repeated in the NT except the Sabbath. Why? Jesus is our Sabbath rest. (Hebrews 4) When you put your faith and trust on Him, you can cease from your work of trying to please God with your actions for salvation. Romans 14 says you can worship on any day, it’s okay, or no day. (Romans 14:5-6) The Sabbath was just a shadow of the good things to come, Christ (Colossians 2:16-17) In reality, the Sabbath is the most important. If you are not in Christ, our Sabbath rest, you are condemned.

    In regard to this verse:
    If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. – Leviticus 20:13

    That’s to retain the purity of the holiness of Israel. I don’t recall anyone being put to death in this way, for homosexuality.

    However, the sin of homosexuality is mentioned three times in the NT: Romans 1, 1 Corinthians 6, and 1 Timothy 1. And it’s listed with other sins as well.

    I as the leader of a Christian evangelism team do not make a big deal of homosexuality. I’ve written about our witnessing encounters with this community maybe 10 times.

    Well, Joey, I hope these answers will help you a little bit. Thanks for asking them.

  37. Garrett

    Reply

    Steve’s response to picking and choosing is that he picks and chooses. I’ll have a lengthy reply to that when I’m off work tomorrow.

    It’s good to know we have official street preachers posting now. Steve, why did you never tell us you were an unofficial knockoff brand?

  39. Ruben Israel

    Reply

    Steve do you really think you can judge a persons attitude?

    Let me walk you down Street Preachers Ave and tell me if you lived in that theater that you would not have mislead that attitude?
    I say Churches every Sunday preach from their books, quote them and polish their tombs but IF they lived during the time these men walked and preach they would keep beyond arms length from them.

    Isaiah, now here is a man that preached naked and barefoot, you really think he would be invited to teach on Sunday morning? This is a man that no one listened too as he said “Who hath believed our report?

    Jeremiah always preached against the religious of his day, even right in front of the Temple gates and his message was not very positive as per Jeremiah 23.
    He warned and was a public reproach:
    “To whom shall I speak, and give warning, that they may hear? behold, their ear is uncircumcised, and they cannot hearken: behold, the word of the LORD is unto them a reproach; they have no delight in it”
    –Jeremiah 6:10
    “For since I spake, I cried out, I cried violence and spoil; because the word of the LORD was made a reproach unto me, and a derision, daily”
    —Jeremiah 20:8

    Ezekiel a Watchman that WARNED THE WICKED. Remember God had him lay on the left side for 390 days and the right side for 40 days? God used this man as a walking visual-aide to preach a message, he ate dung and did not weep after his wife died, preached to bones, etc all because God wanted it so.

    Hosea the prophet was told to marry a ‘whore’ and I’m sure the prophet community questioned his judgment and motives on that one.

    Amos was hated for his public message:
    “They hate him that rebuketh in the gate, and they abhor him that speaketh uprightly”
    –Amos 5:10

    What about our beloved brother Malachi a minor prophet who preached like the big leagues:
    “I will even send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already…..Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces, even the dung of your solemn feasts” (Mal. 2).
    Did you get that Steve? In today’s term that would go something like this, “I will toss crap on your face!”

    I can go on and on with the messages that these men preached in public and compare it with what is spoken on the streets today. If you saw these men in their theater would you know their motive and attitude?
    Today most preacher type use the heathen to check if what they are saying is inspired, I say preach what God says no matter if people get offended or call you ‘hateful.’
    “And Micaiah said, As the LORD liveth, even what my God saith, that will I speak”
    —2 Chronicles 18:13

    Let us look at some New Testament icons:
    John the Baptist looked odd and even called the king an adulterer, he demanded fruit meet for repentance and seemed to call people names while preaching and I doubt he would be invited to speak at the local Baptist Church.
    “O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?”

    How about Jesus our example.
    He called people “dogs, Swine and evil” (Mt 7) “dogs” (Mt. 15), then in Matthew 23 that chapter alone, Christ calls the scribes and Pharisees names, like. “hypocrites” (7 times), “son of Hell” (once),”blind guides” (twice), “fools and blind” (3 times), “whited sepulchres” (once), “serpents” (once), and “offspring of vipers” (once) Child of hell (1) Murderers (1).
    He called Herod a “fox” and preached “Ye are of your father the devil” He even Woed (or curse) cities that no longer exist. And in Matthew 11:20 we find a ‘pearl’ that seems to get overlooked; “Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not” now the verse does not give much detail but that word “upbraid” to say is a strong rebuke would be an understatement.
    Face it Jesus would have been called a ‘hater; by the religious and sinner and perhaps he needs to be more tolerant. Maybe we can find more love and smiley faces with the Apostles.

    Stephen preached:
    “Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye”

    Paul loved a SORCERER and said
    “O full of all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?”

    In Galatians 3 Paul uses the word FOOL:
    “O foolish Galatians…..AND……Are ye so foolish?”

    In Philippians 3 we read:
    “Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers”

    The Apostle John in his Epistle calls people “Liars” and “Anti-Christ’s”

    Not only did these holy men name call and preach a hard saying but they judged entire generations:
    As per Matthew 12 we find 3 verses where our Lord called out whole generations:
    :34 “O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh”
    :39 “But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign”
    :45 “Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation”

    In Matthew 17 we read:
    “Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation”

    lastly Mark chimes in with:
    “Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation”

    I can go on and on with what was preached and written, but the point is would you have misread their attitude?

  40. Garrett

    Reply

    No, it’s because your arguments can’t stand up to reasoning. I promise to have a nice, in-depth response to your inanity tomorrow. I was understaffed at work this weekend and would rather go to bed than wade through your nonsense. Especially since it will end with you doing jack-all to respond.

    You have to time to talk to Mr. Angry Signs and Joey but can’t even defend your supposedly sacred, traditional institution. Pathetic, Steve, but this sign business shows that you can sink lower. So buck up: you’re not a completely terrible person!

  41. Michael Cooper (gypsydisciple)

    Reply

    @Gary Carter says:
    I think you have the right attitude and approach. Did Jesus stand with a sign condemning sinners? NO!

    RE: WRONG, John 8:8 Jesus made a sign with his own finger for the proud sinners. And that sign caused people to walk away some maybe walked away mad some convicted but you can say Jesus was a sign guy and all but one person liked his sign>> the adulterous woman

    @SeedSowerJoy says:
    August 13, 2010 at 1:08 pm

    Michael Cooper said: ” My newest sign reads ‘ Hell is a horrible place’ No warning is too strong.”

    1)Hell is ONLY a “horrible place” to those who believe in heaven and hell. If I were not a Christian, my reaction to that message would probably be “but I don’t believe there IS a hell” or “how do you KNOW it’s a horrible place? Ever BEEN there? Know anyone who has, and came back to tell you about it?

    RE: And my answer is if God tells me it’s horrible I will take his word for it. if you want to find out the hard way that’s on you. Now if you say you don’t believe there IS a hell. I don’t have to prove a thing to you my Job is to warn you and tell you about Jesus.

    #2 MOST people who believe there is a heaven, hell, God and Jesus, ALSO believe they are ” a GOOD person” or “not as bad as ________(fill in the blank). Your sign won’t let them know that we ALL fall short of the glory of God and that, unless they repent, and put their trust in our Lord Jesus, they WILL spend enternity in that “horrible pace”

    RE: We are open air preachers who hold signs I don’t just hold up a sign I am preaching the whole time.

    Are we not called to proudly proclaim God’s love and mercy and His free gift of slavation and eternal life, which all sinners may receive if they repent? The Bible says, if we don’t TELL them about the gospel, how will they KNOW? If your sign doesn’t tell them, how WILL they know?

    RE: True. But as I said we are open air preachers holding signs

    @Steve Sanchez Isa 58:1 Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.

    That is real preaching lifting your voice not holding back and rebuking sin to it’s face with a loud voice. Not dancing around pet sins. Ruben is a open air preacher who holds a sign…way different from a good person test and his style is bible backed as well as your style. I my self go out some days and use the good person test and some days open air. There is a time and place for both but for you to put down sign preachers is way out of line

  42. Garrett

    Reply

    “This is applicable and allows Godly order in the church. Too many times men remain silent and women take charge. When a woman does this, remaining silence, they are showing reverence to their Savior and submission to their husbands. Men really need to step up and lead, loving their wives as Christ loved the church, and to not be harsh with them. It’s about Godly order. Do we demand this enforcement of the policy in our church? No. We are very gracious. A godly woman knows the right thing to do, like my wife. I want her to ask me a question first. I’m her husband, her priest and shepherd.”

    No, this is going against the law and wriggling around it to be acceptable by modern standard. This is a LAW and you specifically say you don’t follow it. You PICKED a law not to follow!

    “We are in the Age of grace. As for all these Laws , they were written for the Jews. Jesus pointed out that unless their righteousness EXCEEDS that of the Pharisees they won’t make. So if you are a Jew, you must keep these Laws to be saved. Obviously no one can or will. The Jewish people were to be Holy unto the Lord, an example to the pagan nations around them These laws were harsh.”

    But you still pick out some laws to follow anyways (like homosexuality). We’ve prodded Ray to show a distinction here, and nothing so far. It seems like you’re just uncomfortable with gays, but not women speaking in church. So…pick and choose in action yet again.

    “Did you ever read about a child being put to death by the way, in the Bible?”

    Uh…Egypt? Firstborn curse? Ring any bells? Or was EVERY firstborn in Egypt a teen or adult?

    2 Samauel 12:13-18 has God inflicting fatal illness on a child.

    The life of a child: not very sacred to God, evidently!

    “The OT Laws don’t apply to pagans, but the Moral Law, the 10 Commandments do. Every commandment is repeated in the NT except the Sabbath. Why? Jesus is our Sabbath rest. (Hebrews 4) When you put your faith and trust on Him, you can cease from your work of trying to please God with your actions for salvation. Romans 14 says you can worship on any day, it’s okay, or no day. (Romans 14:5-6) The Sabbath was just a shadow of the good things to come, Christ (Colossians 2:16-17) In reality, the Sabbath is the most important. If you are not in Christ, our Sabbath rest, you are condemned.”

    Keen, but why do you take some OT laws (gay sex is terrible!) and ignore others (Oh sure, women can speak in Church). Where is this distinction between moral and civil law?

    • Steve Sanchez

      Reply

      Garrett, you most likely do not have an understanding of grace in the Christian church. You sound a little bit legalistic, but I understand how you feel about this. Christianity is not about keeping a set of Laws, though the Moral Law of the 10 Commandments we still must obey, though we aren’t condemned by them any longer if we in Jesus Christ. Again, I cited three New Testament passages that explain that homosexuality is a sin; you may want to read them again.

      My mistake regarding children being killed. I meant to say that you will not read of any being stoned to death because of their disobedience. Mark Twain did say that she should be put in a pickle barrel and fed through a hole as they get older.

      Of course God puts tremendous value on a life, child and otherwise. However, God is also a God of wrath, an angry God as well as a God of love. He does indeed punish sin, individually and corporately. It’s sad that people cannot recognize that there is a God through creation and thus inquire about what this God wants.

      Unfortunately, Garrett, if you continue on in your wicked and idolatrous ways, you, too, will suffer the same fate as all the other unbelieving nations who refuse to repent.

      And BTW, the video called “Context” from YouTube that you promoted in this comments section was very funny and very accurate. I didn’t allow the link because they didn’t capitalize His Name. Yes, most Christians do favor the “Love” passages over the terrible judgment and wrath passages. A balanced approach to our Great God is to understand that “God is love” and that it is a “dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God.”

      You also wrote: Keen, but why do you take some OT laws (gay sex is terrible!) and ignore others (Oh sure, women can speak in Church). Where is this distinction between moral and civil law?

      C’mon, Garrett, you seem like a smart guy. You can’t differentiate between a woman speaking in church and immoral sexual relations? Read your Bible, man! 🙂

      I’d tell you to study the context of the Corinthian church, but I know where that will lead.

      Cheers!

  43. Nohm

    Reply

    I gotta say, this is a much different “jerky evangelism” discussion than the last one we had.

    I notice that Ruben asked Steve about his fruit… that is, how many people repented and started going to church based on Steve’s preaching.

    I’ll ask that right back atcha, Ruben (which is easy, since I don’t have a dog in this particular fight)… how is YOUR system working? How many people have YOU been able to be born again based on YOUR preaching?

    Because, as a non-believer, I may not see how Steve’s tactics could work, but I’m pretty darn convinced that your tactics don’t work at all, Ruben.

    I’m now waiting to hear anecdotal evidence about all of the imaginary people who repented to Jesus based on Ruben telling them that they’re abominations.

    I still have popcorn if anyone wants any. 🙂

  44. Garrett

    Reply

    How do you capitalize a name in audio? And why do you press on people your beliefs? I don’t require you to lower-case any pronoun belonging to God. I capitalize his name out of proper grammar, but he’s not getting any special treatment beyond that. It’s flimsy reason to keep a video off the site. It’s your site, so you’re free to do so.

    To the meat of the post:

    If God puts tremendous value on the life of a child, then why are children killed by him to punish others? Why not punish the Pharaoh rather than kill off firstborn infants? It seems like God DOES value the life of a child, but only as a bartering chip to twist the arms of others.

    Do we need examples of punishment? If a law in the Bible has no example of punishment, is the law invalid? That’s an odd way of doing things. Why even mention the law in the first place?

    Yes, I understand the difference between the two. But it’s not MY absolute moral law: it’s yours. Why is one law just skirted around? I know the reason (misogyny is not tolerated in modern whereas homophobia still is), but feel free to list any biblical explanation. You’re the pastor, right? I got two Bibles in my apartment: show the exception that allows women to speak in your church.

    I do not understand what you mean by the Corinthian Church. Is it that part of the Bible or a modern-day church?

  45. Nohm

    Reply

    Steve wrote: “though the Moral Law of the 10 Commandments”

    Of course, the snarky part of me asks, “WHICH 10 commandments?” There are *three* sets of commandments in the old testament, and the only one labeled as “10 commandments” does not match the list that Steve uses.

    So… there’s that.

    Steve wrote: “He does indeed punish sin, individually and corporately.”

    So, all the kids that were murdered in 1 Samuel 15 in His name… were they punished “individually” or “corporately”? :-O

    Steve, I can’t ask what this God of yours wants until I’m given a reason to think that He exists outside of your imagination.

  46. Neil Konitshek

    Reply

    I don’t know where this discussion is being continued, Facebook or here so I posted in both places.

    I feel compelled to jump in this discussion as it is a very important one!

    First off, Ruben, I definitely respect you and care for you as a brother in Christ. I have preached side-by-side with you numerous times and I know your commitment to Christ is real and you take your calling very seriously. I love you as a true brother in Christ and hope you will be open to hear others opinions on this subject.

    I am your elder in age, but you are my elder in street preaching experience. I truly think there is a misunderstanding that many of us have of what the Bible has to say about God’s present day view of sinners and how we are to preach the gospel and I hope we can discuss this peaceably.

    I would like to answer Ruben one point at a time so we don’t get off track.

    My first point is in response to Ruben’s claim that homosexual sin is an ABOMINATION to God.

    Any true believer in Christ and His Word, cannot honestly deny that this is true. Surely it is an ABOMINATION in the eyes of God. But is it the ONLY sin that is an ABOMINATION to God?

    In the OT, God expressed a wrathful hatred towards the wicked. We all know there are many verses to support this such as:

    Psalm 7:11-13: …God is ANGRY with the wicked every day

    Psalm 5:5-6: “The foolish shall not stand in Thy sight: THOU HATEST ALL WORKERS OF INIQUITY

    And on the sin of homosexuality God says:

    Lev. 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is ABOMINATION.

    So we know for sure that at least at some point in time past, God had a holy hatred for the wicked and that homosexuality is an ABOMINATION in the eyes of God. I do not see though, anywhere in the OT where God singled out homosexuality above all other sins. Truly homosexuality is an ABOMINATION to God but is it the worst sin of all?

    We know God destroyed SODOM and GOMMORAH for their wickedness. But homosexuality was not the only sin they were judged for. In fact, God show how the sins of Israel were WORSE than the sins of Sodom and named some of their other sins.

    Ezekiel 16:48-50 (speaking to Israel)
    48 “As I live,” says the Lord GOD, “neither your sister Sodom nor her daughters have done as you and your daughters have done. 49 Look, this was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: She and her daughter had pride, fullness of food, and abundance of idleness; neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. 50 And they were haughty and committed ABOMINATION before Me; therefore I took them away as I saw fit.

    God mentions many other sins that are an ABOMINATION to Him such as:

    Deut. 25:13 Thou shalt not have in thy bag divers weights, a great and a small.

    14 Thou shalt not have in thine house divers measures, a great and a small.

    15 But thou shalt have a perfect and just weight, a perfect and just measure shalt thou have: that thy days may be lengthened in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

    16 For all that do such things, and all that do unrighteously, are an ABOMINATION unto the LORD thy God.

    So in the verses above, God says anyone who rips off another by using a deceptive scale (deceitful business practice) is an ABOMINATION to Him.

    Aslo see Proverbs 6:16-19:

    16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an ABOMINATION unto him:

    17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

    18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

    19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

    In the verses above, God lists sins such as lying, pride, sowing dissention among the brethren, etc. as an ABOMINATION to Him.

    So throughout the OT God states that at least the following sins are an ABOMINATION to Him:

    IDOLATRY, MURDER, FORNICATION, REBELLION, GLUTTONY, DRUNKENNESS, WITCHCRAFT, SORCERY, DECEPTIVE BUSINESS DEALINGS, SLOTH, LYING, PRIDE, LUST, and of course HOMOSEXUALITY.

    So clearly there are other sins besides homosexuality that are an ABOMINATION to God. This is very clearly explained throughout the OT.

    Do you agree with this Ruben / others? If not please show us from God’s Word why homosexuality is the worst of all sins.

    In His love,
    Neil Konitshek

  47. Michael Cooper (gypsydisciple)

    Reply

    It’s to bad Steve Sanchez was not around in the days of Jonah to tell him he’s doing it all wrong. Maybe you could have
    showed him how to do the good person test! or let him know his preaching was lacking balance. Because he never offered them grace he only preached judgment.

    Look at Luke 11:37 the Pharisee invited Jesus to eat and Jesus blasted him. he told him he was full of greed and wickedness he called him a fool he said woe into him he called them unmarked graves he called them names that are worst then fruit cup! Then in >>>>>11:45One of the experts in the law answered him, “Teacher, when you say these things, you insult us also
    And then he went on to insult and rebuke this man as well! He did not talk about sin in general he rebuked the sin that they was guilty of. If you was in the house at the time of Luke 11:37 I think you would have told your students to say away from people like Jesus because he’s to confrontational and should not be name calling. Maybe you don’t see it Steve but you’re moving in the direction of the emergent church embracing the PROUD sinner and stoning the preacher because you think he is intolerant. The site is called stone the preacher and you’re the one doing the stoning.

  48. Steve Sanchez

    Reply

    In a nutshell, I will answer Ruben and his supporters.

    I understand how and why the Old Testament prophets spoke as they did and that you fancy yourselves as that type of preacher, but you also have to acknowledge that, for the most part, these prophets who preached judgment and doom first spoke to God’s people, then to the surrounding nations. The pattern was generally like this: Prophesies of judgment followed by prophesies of restoration after repentance. After that, a final restoration when Messiah comes for all peoples who hope in Him.

    What’s missing in your OT style is the Good News that accompanies the gloomy pronouncements.

    Now for the New Testament: The majority of the harsh words that Jesus spoke (I don’t include John the Baptist because he is actually the last of the OT prophets) were reserved primarily for the religious hypocrites, those who had the prophesies and the law but missed the point.

    A lot of the rebuking that goes on by the other writers in the NT, (though not exclusively, there are some exceptions) are toward those who professed that they were believers, including false teachers and the like.

    When it comes to preaching, in my humble opinion, we ought to learn from Jesus, who indeed said “…learn from me, for I am gentle and humble of heart…”

    Paul wrote that, “though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some. I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings. (1 Cor 9:19-23)

    Paul also didn’t protest. Ruben, It seems to me that you are protesting all that sinners do. We ought not be protesting, but praying and preaching. (Romans 13 and elsewhere) I’ve seen photos of you with a sign that says, “God abhors you” getting in the face, and angrily yet, of a pro homosexual supporter. That is shameful.

    In Paul’s first epistle to Timothy, a letter on leadership, he writes, “Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. (1 Tim. 1-3) You may not consider yourself a leader, maybe you do, regardless, if you call yourself a Christian, how you behave affects all of us in the street.

    Please take heed. I say this firmly, yet in love.

    Thanks Ruben for engaging me in this discussion. Many are benefiting from this.

    And a fellow believer questioned what you believe in a previous post. See it here: https://stonethepreacher.com/2010/08/12/perspectives-inside-the-mind-of-a-sign-guy.html/comment-page-1#comment-13424

    Are his questions valid? Please do reply to this too, when you get a chance.

  49. Neil Konitshek

    Reply

    Ruben is out of town now for a few days. I am sure he will respond when he returns.

    STEVE’S EDIT: Neil, I took your comments to heart and re-formatted the end of my response to Ruben regarding those other question. Thanks.

  50. Joey

    Reply

    Steve, you realize that if you throw out one Bible verse you can just throw them all out right? You said the verse about stoning homosexuals was only meant for the Jews, but how do we know that? Where in the Bible does it say that certain verses were only meant for certain groups of people? You do realize that God is supposed to exist outside of time so anything that he felt compelled to write down as an instruction manual for his greatest creations, he surely must have meant to be obeyed by all of us.

    As for the whole kill your kids thing, if you believe the Bible to be the inherent word of an all powerful God who lives outside of time and space, then you have to believe that killing disobedient kids is the will of that God.

    If you don’t believe me, here’s what Jesus has to say about the matter:

    Whoever curses his father or mother must certainly be put to death.
    -Mark 7:10

    So even if you disregard the Old Testament, in the New Testament Jesus is very clear. Kill your children if they curse you. If you believe Jesus was the son of God, and God in human form, then you HAVE to believe this, it doesn’t matter if no one has every actually obeyed the verse or not. That’s red letter text straight from the mouth of Jesus himself.

    You tried to say that since no one has ever actually killed their child for disobeying him that we should ignore that verse. I’ve also never met anyone who hasn’t told a lie. Does that mean we should ignore “thou shalt not lie” since that’s what everyone else is doing?

    I think the best point that can be made from all of this is that the Bible should never under any circumstance be used to form a moral code. Do you know why no one ever kills their disobedient children even though the Bible very clearly tells us to? Because we are all born with a conscious, we all know the difference between right and wrong and we don’t need a very outdated, very old book to tell us how to live our lives.

  52. Peter Johnson

    Reply

    Joey,
    God gave Moses and Israel His moral law (the ten commandments), civil law, and ceremonial law (animal sacrifices such as lambs). The Ten Commandments were never abolished; Jesus said that He did not come to abolish the law but fulfill it.

    Christ kept the moral law and fulfilled that with His sinless life. He even brought the moral law to the heart by saying things such as “You have heard it said ‘You shall not commit adultery, but I say to you that whoever looks at woman to lust for her has committed adultery already in his heart.” He upheld the moral law.

    In Christ’s life and death, He fulfilled the Mosaic covenant. Also, the people of God were no longer just the people of Israel, there were also the Gentiles. Civil law was fulfilled after the time period in which Mark 7:10. Furthermore, you left out the part of the verse where Jesus says “Moses said.” Jesus was referencing an old command, not re-establishing it. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%207:5-13&version=NIV
    I’ll let the context speak for itself though.

    The ceremonial law, with regards to animal sacrifices and the like, was fulfilled when Jesus, the Lamb of God, shed His blood on the cross. No longer was there any need for animal sacrifices to cover sin, because Jesus had erased all the sins of the elect.

    And the moral law continues to declare unrepentant sinners “guilty.”

  53. jono

    Reply

    Rueben reaches out to people like a boxer reaches out to throw a punch.

    There is such thing as noisy gongs and clanging symbols in public preaching, it’s called preaching without love. (see 1 cor 13 for details)

  54. Ruben Israel

    Reply

    My responce ***

    Steve writes:
    In a nutshell, I will answer Ruben and his supporters.
    I understand how and why the Old Testament prophets spoke as they did and that you fancy yourselves as that type of preacher, but you also have to acknowledge that, for the most part, these prophets who preached judgment and doom first spoke to God’s people, then to the surrounding nations. The pattern was generally like this: Prophesies of judgment followed by prophesies of restoration after repentance. After that, a final restoration when Messiah comes for all peoples who hope in Him.
    ***Are you saying that we should not use the Old Testament as an example?
    We should eradicate the Old Testament
    So we should not read Psalms or Proverbs and while you are busy cutting away from the Old Testament, must I remind you that there are prophecies yet to be fulfilled? Are you a real Pastor Steve that you are willing to toss out books like Isaiah Jeremiah Ezekiel, etc because of their message preached? We are told to “PREACH THE WORD” that gives me license to preach on numerous topics with Jesus as the remedy, what is so hard to understand about that?***

    What’s missing in your OT style is the Good News that accompanies the gloomy pronouncements.
    ***Repentance, hope and forgiveness had always been given when these men spoke and there are exceptions as in the case of Jonah, but I think you are stretching your story to compensate your Old Testament preacher vs the New Testament Preacher. Are you familiar with the two witnesses in Revelation (N.T.) would you consider their message “the gloomy pronouncements?”***

    Now for the New Testament: The majority of the harsh words that Jesus spoke (I don’t include John the Baptist because he is actually the last of the OT prophets) were reserved primarily for the religious hypocrites, those who had the prophesies and the law but missed the point.
    ***Wrong Steve, Jesus was under the Old Testament, he went to Jerusalem with the rest oif the Hebrews, remember He told those whom He healed to go to the priests as the law commands, if you wish to be technical the New Testament started on the cross and that would wipe out most of the Gospels. Be consistent you seem to have a double standard. Do you never use John the Baptist nor Old Testament saints as an example for today or just not wat they preached in public?
    Regarding your religious hypocrites, please consider where we live, the year 2010 where everyone thinks they know God, everyone is saved, everyone has read the Bible, where everyone thinks they are biblical scholars because they use a Strong’s concordance and we live in a generation of religious hypocrites and your point is?
    I do believe that anyone that spends even one hour on any street in America or any college campus will conclude that everyone thinks they are going to heaven, we are a religious people.***

    A lot of the rebuking that goes on by the other writers in the NT, (though not exclusively, there are some exceptions) are toward those who professed that they were believers, including false teachers and the like.
    ***Insert my last point here again and re-read slowly or better yet I will cut and paste it.
    Regarding your religious hypocrites consider where we live, the year 2010 where everyone thinks they know God, everyone is saved, everyone has read the Bible, where everyone thinks they are biblical scholars because they use a Strong’s concordance and your point is? I do believe that anyone that spends even one hour on any street in America or any college campus will conclude that everyone thinks they are going to heaven, we are a religious people.***
    .

    When it comes to preaching, in my humble opinion, we ought to learn from Jesus, who indeed said “…learn from me, for I am gentle and humble of heart…”
    ***Me thinketh you are PROUD of your humble opinion.
    I have pointed out how Jesus preached and what He preached, any Bible reader will know He spoke more on hellfire/eternal fire/everlasting fire/outer darkness/weeping and gnashing/place of torment/eternal torment/etc. than a ‘God loves you’ message.***

    Paul wrote that, “though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some. I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings. (1 Cor 9:19-23)
    ***Should we than get tattoos and piercing when we preach to the bikers and some local concerts or rent a limo and get a tux if we preach on Wall Street and Beverly Hills and maybe bow to an image of Mary just to win a few Catholics over. And just what would you have us do Steve to preach to the sodomite community or should I dare ask?***

    Paul also didn’t protest. Ruben, It seems to me that you are protesting all that sinners do. We ought not be protesting, but praying and preaching. (Romans 13 and elsewhere) I’ve seen photos of you with a sign that says, “God abhors you” getting in the face, and angrily yet, of a pro homosexual supporter. That is shameful.
    ***Protest? Nothing is further from the truth. Protesters chain themselves, chant with fists raised and are dragged off to jail kicking and screaming, we are preaching. God does abhor them as all this was explained with blunt verses when we started and if you wish not to see Bible that is your error as your issue is with God not me. Ever heard of Jonathan Edwards? He preached one of the most famous sermons called “Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God” to which he used those precise words “God Abhors You” I guess you would have walked out of the service thinking Edwards was a hater and thanking God you were much move loving, caring and understanding then him.
    Paul wrote also wrote
    “Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; REPROVE, REBUKE AND EXHORT with all longsuffering and doctrine”
    “And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather REPROVE THEM”
    Rebuking, reproving, exhorting is preaching not protesting.***

    In Paul’s first epistle to Timothy, a letter on leadership, he writes, “Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. (1 Tim. 1-3) You may not consider yourself a leader, maybe you do, regardless, if you call yourself a Christian, how you behave affects all of us in the street.
    ***Have you ever spend any time with me or are you just gasping for air as you are now getting judgmental Steve, must I remind you that you have become what you’ve accused me of?
    I could argue each one of those conditions, but I am not like YOU, the humble Steve. YOU love to talk about how much YOU love these sinners, how much YOU care for these sinners and just how understanding YOU are as God uses YOU. YOU are drunken with promoting YOUR love and YOUR tears and how YOUR way is the far superior and you seem to be PROUD you are humble.***

    Please take heed. I say this firmly, yet in love.
    Thanks Ruben for engaging me in this discussion. Many are benefiting from this.
    And a fellow believer questioned what you believe in a previous post. See it here: https://stonethepreacher.com/2010/08/12/perspectives-inside-the-mind-of-a-sign-guy.html/comment-page-1#comment-13424
    Are his questions valid? Please do reply to this too, when you get a chance.
    ***Now regarding the post of Aaron, yes I do know Jesse and do consider him more than a friend, he is my Brother in Christ and will stand with him any day of the week. As for trying to put me in a box let us continue with this discussion before chasing all of your rabbit trails, if 1Corinthians 14:40 mean anything to you?
    I have yet questioned if Steven has any residue of being a Calvinist, because that would be foolish of what or how I preach in public because that theology God has already preordained the saved the unsaved. So the issue of what I preach and my methodology would be in vain, for it is all foreordain. What would it matter if someone carried a large banner, sang songs or walked around with a lampshade on his head passing out tracts it was all predestined who was saved, no?***

  55. Ruben Israel

    Reply

    Nohm writes:
    “Because, as a non-believer, I may not see how Steve’s tactics could work, but I’m pretty darn convinced that your tactics don’t work at all, Ruben.
    I’m now waiting to hear anecdotal evidence about all of the imaginary people who repented to Jesus based on Ruben telling them that they’re abominations.
    I still have popcorn if anyone wants any”
    ——————————————————-
    Read em and weep Nohm, I do not have a camera everywhere I go and preach but I do have a few I will post for you, since a picture is worth a 1000 words these videos should be worth 100,000 words.

    Here is a Nicaraguan that repented during Mardi Gras as I needed an interpreter
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcS4tTqNoOY

    Here is a young man that saw the banners, heard the preaching and repented right on the street during an event called ‘Southren Decadence’.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgK8IEdeu4I

    Here is a testamony from a guy goping to a Marylin Manson concert and is now saved from street preachers
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUnieRpHMVg

    Here is a young man at South Beach that wanted prayer after I preached
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlevb0Viegw

    Public preaching provokes prayer
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU8uamIBliM\

    This clip was taken in Gary Indiana around midnight preaching in a gang neighborhood and after I finished preaching I was confronted with someone that wanted to get his life in order with God.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlgl4zY_57s

  56. Michael Cooper (gypsydisciple)

    Reply

    @jono I think you have itchy ears and need some one to tell you the things you want to hear are you a fan of Joel Osteen?

    KJV 2 tim 4:3 3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears

    AMP 2 Tim 4:3 For the time is coming when [people] will not tolerate (endure) sound and wholesome instruction, but, having ears itching [for something pleasing and gratifying], they will gather to themselves one teacher after another to a considerable number, chosen to satisfy their own liking and to foster the errors they hold

  57. jono

    Reply

    @Michael
    1) Itchy ears? Im not sure how you got that conclusion from my response.

    2) Joel Osteen…ummm, NO.

    3) PLEASE READ THIS SLOWLY: The problem with confrontational evangelist (like Rebuen), is not that they are too committed to the gospel but that they are not committed to it enough. Let me explain.

    Think of people you consider confrontational evangelists. They’re overbearing, self-righteous, opinionated, condescending, insensitive, and harsh. Why? It’s not because they are too Christian but because they are not Christian enough. They are fanatically zealous and courageous, but they are not fanatically humble, sensitive, loving, empathetic, forgiving, or understanding—as Christ was.

    -j

  58. Nohm

    Reply

    Ruben,

    If for nothing else, I thank you so much for the humor in these videos.

    “[Marilyn Manson is] a minister of the Church of Satan.” (From the “Marilyn Manson supporter”)

    I can promise you that the only weeping I’m doing here is from laughing.

    Talk about being dispersuasive. Yow. So you managed to convince some incredibly kooky-insane people, or (in other videos) people who were already believers. Not impressed.

  59. Nohm

    Reply

    I wrote: “I’m now waiting to hear anecdotal evidence about all of the imaginary people…”

    Well, I was pretty darn close.

  60. SeedSowerJoy

    Reply

    Reply to Micheal Cooper:

    I apologize if I missed it somewhere, but I didn’t see that you are a “Sign Guy” who is ALSO open-air preaching. Some “Sign Guys” just stand there holding tiheir sign and, I would guess, tolking one-to-one if someone stops to talk with them. But, since you are also “TELLING them” the gospel, it sounds as though you’ve got it cover both ways.

    Also, during our many evangelising outings, we have seen some signs that are probably VERY effective conversation-starters. so we are, by no means, ANTI-Sign Guys.

  63. Ruben Israel

    Reply

    seedsowerjoy:
    It is not either or, one can hold a banner (Ps.60:4; Is.13:2), preach outloud (Is.58:1) and response to the crowd and talk one on one if needed, again not one or the other and on a side note. We can also walk a chew gum at the same time too.

  64. Ruben Israel

    Reply

    Here are some Street Preach clips that might assist those lacking discernment that the Body of Christ has many parts and not one big ear. If God uses you to reap harvest it is not because you are a better evangelist or your method is of the Lord, but you entered into another persons labor.

    “I sent you to reap that whereon ye bestowed no labour: other men laboured, and ye are entered into their labours” -John 4:38

    As one can plant that seed, with another watering that seed, and yet another reaping the harvest from that seed, as one is not greater than the other. Oh and may I had one must fertilize the ground, as that job seems to be us, for our signs stink, our message reeks and our words are foul, BUT A NECESSITY for someone to reap our labor.

    Places and Methods to Public Preach
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFnT45DteoM

    Looking for a Sign from God?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZvz5bg4gWo

  65. Michael Cooper (gypsydisciple)

    Reply

    @jono @Steve I think it would do you good and any one who is part of the discussion to watch a video from Paul Washer @ the Deeper Conference 2008. If you have all ready seen it watch it again this might be the best teaching I ever seen on Evangelism….I have one question for Steve and Jeno are you’s part of the emergent church movement? on Jeno’s site you use words like culturally relevant
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shxQcczYuAA

    Jono you have Sharing Jesus…by cleaning toilets and Free Shoe Shines for Jesus. on your site John 13:12-14 the foot washing thing is for the body of Christ to be humble in the body and serve one other it’s not a Evangelism tool!!!! we are to give grace to the humble and law to the proud 1 pet 5:5 we learn that God resisteth the proud but you wish to offer them grace that God said is not available to the proud. What are you people thinking? Are you going to free Shoe Shine a proud sinner to Jesus???????? Your giving them more pride because the church is willing to get on it’s knees and clean there toilets just to have a moment to talk to them!!!!!!!! You people have lost your minds you make the emergent church movement look confrontational compared to your ways. I am sure you will fill your church with tons on proud sinners but if you ever run out of toilet cleaner they will find a new church that will do the job

  66. Steve Sanchez

    Reply

    Ruben, I love your “tell it like you see it approach.” At least on this blog. Maybe I’ll feature you every week! What do you think?

    To Michael Cooper: I suspect that you may be new to this blog, otherwise you wouldn’t compare me to ole Joel.

    But that’s okay, keeping checking in. I appreciate all you guys and gals offering your perspectives! 🙂

  67. Michael Cooper (gypsydisciple)

    Reply

    Yes I am new here, The Joel Osteen comments was for Jono. I respect the way of the master and use it all the time. I have respect for you and your ministry but I think your taking baby steps in the direction of the emergent church.

  68. Ruben Israel

    Reply

    While Steve is on a side bar, I have a question for those who love to go out a testify their faith> It is very common in street evangelism to hear “Love the sinner not the sin” and so my question is, is this saying found anywhere in the Bible or do you know where it came from?

    • Dave

      Reply

      Ruben this is one of the questions I had to answer for myself because I have heard it said over and over again from different church sources but never read it in my Bible.

      I have come to the conclusion that I am to hate sin (my sin) and love the sinner. I see no way of separating hatred for a another persons sin from hating the sinner.

      Loving a sinner is done by living and telling the truth, be it gentle with one who is broken and sensitive and wanting help; or be it a strong warning to those who are proud and arrogant.

      I’ve only been on the streets a short time myself…better late than never…I’ll check our your blog Ruben…maybe I can write more to you particularly there.

  69. Neil Konitshek

    Reply

    Ruben/others, I have been researching this very topic for some time. The question of “Does God hate sin and love sinners?” or however one wants to frame it.

    It has really bothered me for sometime and I felt the Holy Spirit guiding me to seek the Truth on this issue. It is not simply a matter of “preaching styles”. We are either biblically correct or not.

    Please watch this video I just made:

    “Does God Hate Sinners?”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtJ8uSJL6D4

    Let me know what you think. Thanks, Neil

  70. Armando Gomez

    Reply

    You guys are supposed to be on the same team. Rueben must be a perfect man. Free from all sin. He never did anything wrong. Im just guessing. I also want a sign that says all angry jugmental people burn in hell to post in his front yard. Mr. Perfect here just needs to practice what he preaches cuz the bible said NONE of us are good. Including you Rueben.

  71. Michael Cooper (gypsydisciple)

    Reply

    @Steve The Corridor of Conversion was great. What I don’t think you see is Gods has set up his own Corridor of Conversion and how a sign guy might fit in. As a person walks this world God will set up a friend to tell them about Jesus and then one day they might find a bible tract laying some place and then come across a way of the master good person test guy.

    But did you ever stop to think a sign guy with a strong rebuke might fit in some place in the mix? I say yes. I seen all four videos and think your doing a great Job but there is a time and a place for all bible backed ways of Evangelism and if your standing face to face with a PROUD SINNER a good rebuke is in order.

    Even if the sign guy don’t offer him grace that day. maybe God wishes to have him stew in that rebuke a few days or months and then have him meet a grace preacher when he is ripe for the picking and has been humbled by the strong rebuke days before hand

  72. Neil Konitshek

    Reply

    Ruben, my response:

    You wrote:

    We find Jesus saying in the Book of Revelation
    “But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also HATE”
    2:6
    …“So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I HATE”
    2:15
    Now why would the Lord tell you otherwise Neil??

    RUBEN, My point EXACTLY! Read these verses again.

    v6: Jesus hates the “DEEDS” of the Nicolaitans.

    v15: Jesus hates the “DOCTRINE” of the Nicolaitans.

    Jesus HATES the DEED and DOCTRINE of these wicked men.

    Next: You quote Paul quoting the OT when discussing election not about how we should view sinners.

    Paul resserected God HATING the very person of Jacob in the New Testament as per Romans 9:13.
    “As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I HATED”
    did Paul not hear this same spirit that influenced you and told you otherwise?

    Now again your back to the OT! You wrote:

    Did not Solomon write Proverbs 6:16-19?
    “These six things doth the LORD HATE: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
    A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
    An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
    A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren”

    The Psalm 5:5 does not say God HATES the sinner but the WORKER of inquinty, those that work at sin, live in sin, metatate on sin and make time for sin. You make God out to bipolar and even a bit schizophrenic, by saying I love you but I will toss you into hellfire when I meet you.
    But back to my questtion of who said “Love the sin but not the sinner”
    NO one in the Old Testament, NO one in the Gospels, NO one in the Book of Acts, NO one in the Epistles nor the Book of Revelation……it was…..drum roll please……Mahatma Ghandi……yet it is quoted as scripture on the streets.

    RUBEN
    Again Romans 5:8 “For God demonstrates His LOVE for us in this; while we were yet SINNERS, Christ died for us.

    He didn’t die for the righteous. He died for SINNERS. You know, Homosexuals, drunkards, liars, gluttons, murderers, idolaters, etc.

    Are you promoting a God who dies who those he HATES? Doesn’t He say He SHOWS His LOVE by dying for us when we are yet lost in our sins?

    So which is it? Does God die for the ones He hates or loves?

  74. jono

    Reply

    For what its worth…

    @ Rueben

    What scripture brought you to the conclusion that what i said is foolish?

    @ Michael

    YES! Shoe shine and cleaning toilets! thats a parable of Grace and the gospel! Serve, serve, and share the good news like Jesus!…Of course we don’t limit it to that we talk to them and give the “Good” & “Bad” News. And AND AND we also do public preaching.

    what scriptural defense would you give for not serving the lost? i.e. giving them food, water, or even cleaning there toilettes?

    Our vision for advancing the gospel is:

    1. Public Preaching
    2. Sacrificial Love
    3. Intercessory Prayer
    **thats actually a quote by Paul Washer and its just biblical 😉

  75. Armando Gomez

    Reply

    The leading reason people dont go to church is because they dont want people to judge them. What does God want the most from us? To be Humble. Its not your job to judge its his. Its your job to love. He is purposly making us christians look like the judgmental kooks that they think we are. He is working against us not with us. He brags on Utube that he spends his own money to fly from city to city to yell and jude people. Why not spend that money on the poor? Thats what God really asks of us. Look in the mirror, have you seen yourself? Just look at you.

  76. Michael Cooper (gypsydisciple)

    Reply

    @Armando Gomez The leading reason people dont go to church is because they dont want people to judge them

    RE: The bible tells us that’s true John 3:20 (New International Version)
    20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed….It’s NOT my job to dim the light to make it easy on proud sinners

    What does God want the most from us? To be Humble. Its not your job to judge its his

    RE: And if we stick to the bible it is his words judging that sin not my words all I am doing is telling them what he said

    He brags on Utube that he spends his own money to fly from city to city to yell and jude people

    RE: If I got paid for doing it people would say I do it for the money I can never please people and I don’t wish to…..1Cor 4:3 As for me, it matters very little how I might be evaluated by you or by any human authority. I don’t even trust my own judgment on this point. 4 My conscience is clear, but that doesn’t prove I’m right. It is the Lord himself who will examine me and decide…..

    Why not spend that money on the poor? Thats what God really asks of us.

    RE: I am spending it on the poor in spirit they need it more then they need food

    Look in the mirror, have you seen yourself? Just look at you.

    RE: The bible is my mirror and it tells me how bad of a sinner I am and that’s why I too need Jesus. If your talking about my weight yes I know I am fat and I have lost 60 lbs and will keep losing….Thanks for your time

  78. Aaron

    Reply

    Ruben Israel,

    You said:
    “Now regarding the post of Aaron, yes I do know Jesse and do consider him more than a friend, he is my Brother in Christ and will stand with him any day of the week.”

    **Enough said. It makes sense that you would consider a heretic like Jesse Morell as a brother, seeing both of you have a lot in common as far as open-air preaching goes (loveless, graceless, preaching anything and everything but Christ and Him crucified, etc.).
    But the bottom line is that you are clearly contradicting Scripture. 2 John 9-11 tells us clearly not to have fellowship with a heretic, and not even greet him (See also Titus 3:9-11).

    (For all who are unaware of Jesse Morell and his false doctrine, please see:

    Ruben, Open Theist/Pelagian or not, you are clearly guilty of taking part in Morell’s “wicked works”, and need to be rebuked and openly denounced before all the brethren.

    You said: “As for trying to put me in a box let us continue with this discussion before chasing all of your rabbit trails, if 1Corinthians 14:40 mean anything to you?”

    **Um…CONTEXT? I know you like to do this a lot, but I would really advise you against pulling verses from Scripture out of their immediate context. 1 Cor. 14 is talking about when the church gathers together, and specifically in that last section about tongues, prophecy, and women speaking out in the assembly.

    You said: “I have yet questioned if Steven has any residue of being a Calvinist, because that would be foolish of what or how I preach in public because that theology God has already preordained the saved the unsaved. So the issue of what I preach and my methodology would be in vain, for it is all foreordain. What would it matter if someone carried a large banner, sang songs or walked around with a lampshade on his head passing out tracts it was all predestined who was saved, no?”

    **Now you’re the one going off on rabbit trails…I didn’t even mention Calvinism. But either way, it’s pretty clear you either have no understanding of the Doctrines of Grace, or you are purposefully misinterpreting the Calvinistic (Scriptural) position regarding election/predestination. If the latter is the case, NO, I will not take the bait. You can debate that with someone else on another forum.

    Ruben, not only do you lack the fruits of a geuniune Christian, you are practicing sin and directly contradicting the Word of God in having close fellowship with a heretic all the while calling yourself a brother. I urge you to repent and turn to Christ.

  80. Steve Sanchez

    Reply

    1) It was not my intention to lump all sign guys in together. I’m differentiating between what I call “Radical Sign Guys” and “Sign Guys.” In a future post, possibly Friday or next week, I will explain further my position. In fact, I actually have two posts when I have been “caught” with a sign.

    2) Ruben, I never labeled you a heretic; that was someone else, and I asked you to respond to his concerns if they were legitimate. Of course, you don’t have to.

    My posts have been gracious and respectful toward you in the hope that you may learn from this discussion. I apologize if I have offended you with something I said that wasn’t characterized as such, but I believe I have a responsibility as a pastor and as an evangelist to offer a gentle correction when I see someone who callls himself a brother in error.

    I have nothing more to add to this discussion, but have enjoyed it immensely.

    Check out my blog Friday or next week when I explain my perception of “Sign Guys,” both radical and not-so.

    Thank you and God bless you all! 🙂

  81. Michael Cooper (gypsydisciple)

    Reply

    @all The bible tells us to test all things and hold on to what is good. I am all ways open to a rebuke and to change if the bible backs it. This has been a great test for me on what ways are right and what should be changed I wish to thank Steve and all the rest who took time to post.

    @Jono Asked >>>> what scriptural defense would you give for not serving the lost? i.e. giving them food, water, or even cleaning there toilettes?

    RE: Read 1 Pet 5:5 God never offered grace to Proud sinners. If you can show me one place where Jesus or Paul or any disciple preached grace to a PROUD sinner I will come to AZ and spend a day cleaning with you

  82. jono

    Reply

    – The commandment, “Love your neighbor as yourself” apply?

    Others to think about…

    – When sinners where committing the worst sin in history (crucifying the son of God) Jesus still said, “father, forgive them for they know not what they do” – Jesus

    – Jesus washed his disciples feet… including Judas.

    – Not to mention that every PROUD sinner although deserving hell can enjoy some of God’s creation such as, LIFE, AIR, SEX, FOOD. Although it’s not saving grace it’s grace nonetheless.

  83. Michael Cooper (gypsydisciple)

    Reply

    @Jono Asked >>>>The commandment, “Love your neighbor as yourself” apply?
    RE: I am not saying not to love them we are talking about Evangelism If you take the time to preach to them that’s proof that you love your neighbor but do we preach grace to them if they are Proud in sin? NO
    we must give a proud sinner the law

    Jono Asked>>>When sinners where committing the worst sin in history (crucifying the son of God) Jesus still said, “father, forgive them for they know not what they do” – Jesus

    RE: Matt 27:25 New Living Translation
    And all the people yelled back, “We will take responsibility for his death–we and our children! Jesus was saying don’t hold this permanently against them if God let them take responsibility for his death they would have been lot forever

    @Jono asked>>>> Jesus washed his disciples feet… including Judas

    RE: Again we are talking about valid forms of Evangelism. Show a sinner all the love you want but when it comes time to Salvation they must be humbled by the Law to come to Jesus if not we will have a church full of ( Give me Christians ) looking for the hand of God and not the face of God proud sinners looking for the next perk of belonging to your church. This is real big with Mormons they will pay your rent and bill that’s is not a valid forms of Evangelism if you can prove me wrong by showing me in the bible where Jesus or Paul or any disciple preached grace to a PROUD sinner I will change my ways and take a trip to AZ to prove it!

  84. jono

    Reply

    Romans 12:14-21

    14Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. 15Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. 16Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position.[c] Do not be conceited.

    17Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. 18If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. 19Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”[d]says the Lord. 20On the contrary:
    “If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
    if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
    In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.”[e] 21Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

    How is shinning Some ones shoes then telling him about the “law & the gospel and calling them to repent and turn to the cross for forgiveness not a valid form of evangelism?

    How is cleaning someone’s toilet and explaining to them how their life is “filthy” like this toilette and needs to be cleaned, and Jesus came to save the filthy not the clean if you repent and surrender to him. How is this not evangelism?

    We try to be faithful with the message and flexible with our methods that way by all means we might save some.

    I invite you to come to AZ i think we could learn from each other

  85. Michael Cooper (gypsydisciple)

    Reply

    @Jono If you in fact preach the Law to the proud and give grace to them who are humbled by the law and see Jesus as the only way out. my hat go’s off to you. I have a hard time seeing how that could be done but with Jesus all things are possible. If the Message is not watered down and seeker sensitive more power to ya. I plan on visiting AZ soon and I come and visit you guys. And it’s true we can learn from each other

  86. Ruben Israel

    Reply

    Ok ‘Mr. love bug’ (Aaron) if you going to bad mouth someone at least have the back bone to have him on this link. Unless you like gossip…..then again I doubt you can handle Jess. Your approach is liken to a shotgun, if it hits the target oh well, whereas Jess is more like a sniper, on the target and to the point. You are out of his league.

  89. Aaron

    Reply

    Ruben,
    With all due respect, your response to me above is entirely nonsensical. Your friend Morell believes and practies heresy. Not only is what he believes unbliblical, it has historically been considered heretical doctrine by Christians (Calvinists and Arminians alike) for hundreds upon hundreds of years. Unbiblical, unorthodox, unhistorical. You have clearly aligned yourself with one who teaches false doctrine, and have been biblically confronted about this sin, and the consequences of such a sin. But it appears you do not believe in or care about the Word of God, seeing as you refuse to repent. And since you cannot defend your position biblically, you instead resort to name-calling (“Mr. love bug”), accusing me of gossip, and telling me I’m “out of his league”. These childish antics do not the least bit resemble the attitude of a mature believer and child of God, much less a genuine one.

  90. Carol Nicholson

    Reply

    This dialogue on witnessing to homosexuals between Steve and Rueben has created quite a buzz. Steve I know, and have been out in the fields evangelizing at many different events. I believe God is using him tremendously in teaching an evangelism class,”HOW TO SHARE YOUR FAITH WITHOUT FEAR”, at his church. Most churches lack in this department, leading to a terribly rebellious, and disobedient church. So, this is commendable.

    Now, far as making judgments on whose ministry is more effective, none of us will know for sure until judgment day. In 1 Cor. 3:6 the apostle Paul wrote “I have planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase”. He also warns us in ch.4:6 not to be puffed up against each other. It is not about having preeeminence-3 John:8. The question should be, am I in Christ following His way as He is leading me. We see a very interesting story in 1 Kings 13, where one prophet decided to follow an older prophet’s advise which was contrary to what God had told him, and his demise for trusting in man, rather than God! We do not want to put ourselves in the position of either one of those prophets.

    I do not know Rueben personally, but the more I read his comments, and how he defended his position biblically, I cannot help but love this dear brother in the Lord. It is interesting to see how many came down hard on him. One must realize that there are many different Spiritual gifts in the body, so our styles will differ. This is a good thing. We are not robots. Rueben’s gift of prophesy, exhortation, teaching, and wisdom, should not alienate him from the body. Rather, we should encourage, and pray for him. He has a special annointing, and boldness to proclaim the truth in tough territory. God gave him the right stature, and demeanor to reach homosexuals and reprobates of all sorts.

    Steve, I viewed some of Rueben’s u-tube, namely,’Just Happen T o Be Homo Day Today”, “Soapa Conference- Preaching to Hell’s Angels, and “Soldiers of the Cross”. I learned a lot about him. He has such a heart for serving God, and really cares about the souls of people. He tells the truth, not because he hates, but because he loves. He has a great sense of humor too! 1 Thessalonians says, “QUENCH NOT THE SPIRIT. DESPISE NOT PROPHESYINGS”. It is not our place to dictate to another brother how to preach-this should come from God only. There is not a hierrarchy system in the body of Christ. Rather, we are all ministers of God. Now if he says something that does not line up with scripture, that is a different. story. We must be careful not to get in the way of what God might be trying to do, in using these great signs and banners. It is biblical, and effective. Praise God that He uses all different types. Amen

  91. Carol Nicholson

    Reply

    Jesus used many different styles in His witnessing. Sometimes He was harsh, sometimes He was loving. He told Peter, ‘GET THEE BEHIND ME SATAN”, JUST FOR TRYING TO DISSUADE HIM FROM GOING TO THE CROSS! Couple years ago I went on a Holy Land tour, and visited that city of Capernaum that Jesus curd, and guess what. The entire city is abandoned. The only signs of proof are some broken down pillars, and is now a tourist site. I can only imagine how beautiful it must have been before the curse, because it is right at the waters edge. Most amazing view.

    I have been to the gay pride parade two years in a row. There was one guy who joyfully took our tract, but soon as he read the message he ran after me, and called me all the dirtiest names. This same thing happened in Long Beach, and Hollywood. We were able to engage a group of about 6 guys, obviously gay, but wearing Christian t-shirts. Interesting how they gave all the right answers about the laws, making it seem like we are on the same page. They claimed to be devout bible believing Christians, but quickly got angry when I tried to have them read 1 Cor.6:9. Had I not done that, they would have walked away, self justified, and self deceived. I strongly agree with Rueben that God’s way is to point out the specific sin. Rueben’s way may seem harsh, but you know there was a time after many warnings and rebukes of Jeremiah to the hard hearted, unrepentant rebels, God told him to not even pray for them anymore!! Jeh:7:16 We must be so careful not to be too quick to judge other believer’s styles as inferior. When ministering to Catholics, you must talk about idol worship, praying for dead, confessing to priest, and pope etc. If we don’t, we are saying our style is better than God’s. His word is a double edged sword-not a lollipop. Jonah’s harsh preaching caused an entire city to be saved. Rebuke is better than flattery. I think all those who insulted Rueben for doing God’s work, should humble themselves and repent, and perchance the Lord will forgive you. And study the word! Don’t give the devil a foothold!

    Let nothing be done in vainglory, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. Philippians 2:3. Love covers a multitude of sins. Praise God! If the devil succeeds in separating us, he wins. What a crafty devil. But we have God’s indwelling Spirit. We can outwit him. Forget not the great persecution our Lord Jesus suffered at the end, and took it humbly. He who humbles himself will be exalted, an he who exalts himself will be humbled. Praise God!

  92. David Stokes

    Reply

    I have held signs with Ruben and would again it’s very effective! I use signs in Houston regularly! Larry Craft and the KJV only guys get a lot done for the Kingdom!

    I also hand out Gospel tracts at concerts, sporting events, and I love Ray Comforts ministry! There’s two different styles here is the issue and there both educating the general public on the condition of there souls. WE NEED BOTH STYLES!!!!!!!!

    I team up with Peasant Saints a local evangelism team here in the Houston area once in a while; there style is “Way of the Master” to a tee! There not big on me holding sign boards in the gay part of Houston which I do regularly. It’s very effective folks pull over and talk some times I will have up to 20 people on my corner! Some times it gets a little crazy but welcome to street ministry. My signs are 3′ by 4′ one say’s “Homosexuality is a Sin!” and another says “Christ can set you Free!”

    My point is as street evangelist’s we need to fight for unity and back each other up! If Ruben was in Houston targeting an event I would consider it an honer to work with him side by side; I have in Salt Lake City.

    I will also continue to team up with Peasant Saints or any other “Way of the Master” team. WE NEED BOTH STYLES!

    David Stokes- Bulldogministries.com

  93. Carol Nicholson

    Reply

    Well said, David. We need brotherly love and encouragement from each other. “By this all will know that you are My disciples, if ye have LOVE one to another”. JOHN 13:35.

  94. Carol Nicholson

    Reply

    What an awesome time at Fiesta Hermosa today. And there were sign guys, and gals everywhere! I TOOK TURNS CARRYING ONE MYSELF, IN THE SHAPE OF A CROSS. THEN THERE WERE THE GUYS WITH THE BOLD BRIGHT YELLOW SIGNS WITH BLACK LETTERING. They had all the bible verses one needs to know how to get saved. They seemed to infiltrate that entire beach area, down every isle. JUST AWESOME! tHESE BRETHREN TRAVEL LONG DISTANCES IN LARGE GROUPS. tHEIR SIGNS ARE VERY EFFECTIVE. GOD BLESS THEM, AND ALL THE OTHERBRETHREN THERE TODAY, AND THOSE WHO WILL BE THERE THE NEXT COUPLE DAYS!

    Their signs can be read from a great distance. I have never seen so many Christians in one area, proclaiming Christ. Even hours later,as we were leaving, there was a second shift of soldiers coming on duty. We used many different styles, one to one small groups, passing out tracts, and open air preaching few times. As much as the devil wanted to deter us, the Gospel went forth loud and clear. God answered our prayers, and He got the victory. Praise the Lord!

    • Steve Sanchez

      Reply

      Yes, these sign guys are great. They are quiet, respectful and carry signs that indeed inform an unbeliever hot to get saved. I do differentiate between Ruben and his ilk, and the guys who came out today. In fact, I welcome them!

  96. Dave

    Reply

    I find street preachers who use signs and have no signs following them are missing the point, Mark 16:15-17.

  97. David Bisset

    Reply

    The Bible also says Deu 25:16 “For all who do such things, all who act dishonestly, are an abomination to the LORD your God.” Therefore if all who act dishonestly are an abomination then in Gods sight liars are no more or less sinful than Homosexuals and vice versa. Its interesting that Annanias and Sapphira both dropped dead not for Homosexuality but lying. Homosexuality is one of many sin’s all of which are worthy of eternal fiery torment in hell. Jesus didnt open his conversation with the woman at the well by shouting her sin of having had 5 husbands and that the man she was currently with was not her husband. Yes it came up but much later in the conversation. Nor did Jesus begin by yelling to the Rich Young ruler about his making a God of his riches, again it came up later in the conversation but within the context of Jesus gently engaging in spiritual conversation. I dont recall Jesus ever holding up placards with scripture texts ranting as the crowds paraded by. And does the bible not also say Isa 1:18 “Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.” How can you reason with Homosexuals if all you do is sit on the sidelines yelling at them?

    Could I also say that Paul was never to my knowledge a homosexual and yet he calls himself the chief of sinners and its interesting God doesnt disagree with him after he says it. Paul was a murderer and yet God saved and transformed Him praise God He can and is transforming Homosexuals too through those who like Steve are willing like Jesus to go and sit with the sexually immoral, publicans and sinners of our day and engage them in meaningful one on one gospel conversation. “He that winneth souls is wise” the scriptures say and on my humble understanding of scripture being wise in winning souls would include not getting peoples backs up before the conversation even gets up off the ground. Homosexuality is not the unpardonable sin.

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  99. TommyWou

    Reply

    To any closeted LGBT folks out there:

    There is nothing wrong with your sexuality, any shame you feel is just a cultural thing, you can let it go and be loved for who you are.

    • Steve Sanchez

      Reply

      Yes, you can be loved for who you are as long as you live in this world, and given the current climate in our country, yes, you will not feel much shame in this liberalized culture that has rejected God.

      But, if you want to be loved by God and forgiven of your sins, like the sin of lying (if you’ve ever done that, then you are a liar), or stealing (ever done that?) or misused God’s name which is blasphemy, or looked with lust which Jesus calls adultery, if you’ve sinned even one time, including the sin of homosexuality, then you will be found guilty and end up in Hell.

      But God became a man in the person of Jesus Christ, suffered and dies for all your sins, was buried for three days and rose again. If you, Tommy Wou, or any other person reading this puts your trust in Christ’s finished work on the cross and turn away from your sin, then God will forgive you.

      While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

      Please Tommy, consider this. Thanks for your comments. I appreciate them. Please reply back.

  100. Mike

    Reply

    The Bible commands us to (Eph 5:11) Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them;

    Steve Sanchez, when are you going to start doing that?

  101. Peter Osroff

    Reply

    I general I support Ruben’s right to spread the Biblical message as he sees fit. However, he makes it very clear on his website that he does not want to hear from anyone who disagrees with him. So, he likely is not used to Christians sharing concerns with him. I say with love that I have found some of his words on his website hurtful and unBiblical — for example, his comments about Jews and the Holocaust…he actually states that the millions killed were not all innocent victims – How bizarre a statement from a preacher of the Gospel?! It was then that I realized that his words were not seasoned and his heart not filled with love. Then, when I was going to share my concern with him privately on his website, his complaint link brought me to toilet paper and a toilet. So, I then understood his heart. I was truly saddened. I still am.

    • Henry Rappleyea

      Reply

      That’s the issue I have with Reuben Israel his message has just enough truth that it leads to another Gospel which denies grace of the finished work of Jesus Christ. Rueben is correct in saying none of the Jews in the haulocaust were innocent. No one who has been born other than Jesus Christ is innocent if they were then Jesus would not have died on the cross, you could achieve salvation by the law. So Israel is not wrong in saying this, he is wrong in judging others for sinning because he sins its one thing to say this is sin and will be judged without Christ as Lord. Its another thing to say your sinning and are going to hell. This is hypocracy no one has authority to condemn sin only to preach sin is condemned.

  102. Roy Ingle

    Reply

    I was wondering about Israel’s theology. I know he is moral government guy in terms of the atonement. However, I had heard he was oneness in his view of God. Didn’t know if you knew more.

  103. Jeff

    Reply

    I believe Steve’s goal is to win souls to Christ. His approach is probably effective, in that he is finding a connection with them to get them to listen. By hurling insults, they won’t even listen and will likely never turn to Christ. BUT, once they turn to Christ, then most certainly they need to be told about their sin and repent of it.
    It seems to me the difference of approach is this:
    Steve: Turn them to Christ, then change their sinful ways.
    Ruben: Change their sinful ways, then turn them to Christ.
    Keep in mind, changing their sinful ways will not get them to heaven…they still have to turn to Christ. Steve is working on that part first….if they turn to Christ, He will open their eyes.
    I would ask both these guys how many people have turned to Christ through the work they’ve been doing.

    • Henry Rappleyea

      Reply

      I disagree that once they know Christ they need to be told to repent from sin. Repentance from sin is the result of salvation. Once you know grace of Jesus Christ sin becomes ugly and repulsive and your new creature will WANT to stay away from sin. Churches should be preaching grace nothing but grace. The law is for the unbelieving not the believing for revealing our wickedness. Grace brings freedom from sin.

  105. Henry Rappleyea

    Reply

    Rueben was talking about ” how many people show up at your church, how many have you discipled?” I really see pride as the spirit behind these statements. I don’t preach the Gospel to get a result. I preach the Gospel in truth and love its up to the Holy Spirit to bring about repentance. It’s God who makes the Gospel powerful. I try to avoid gimmicks like signs because I don’t want people to think I’m protesting. We preached at PRIDE and had some very deep conversations with people but many simply could not understand the Gospel no matter how hard I tried to explain it. I had a gal keep asking so I have to do good things? I’m like no that is not at all true, its by putting your faith in Jesus Christ that saves you. Even if you stopped sinning today if it were possible God would have to judge you for every word thought or action its by Jesus Christ and his sacrifice our sins are removed, repentance is evidence of regeneration not the means to salvation. The means is faith in Jesus Christ given by grace. You don’t choose him he chooses you. If you do not understand this ask God to help you to. It’s understood by revelation not information. We preach the gospel the Holy Spirit brings its power to the listener.

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