Atheist Tuesday: Of Pride, Pearls, and Pigs

93 CommentsAtheist Tuesday

I must start off this post today with an apology. Also, I want to repent. But first, let me give you a little background on why I feel compelled to do this….

You may have noticed over the last several months that fewer and fewer atheists are posting on Atheist Tuesdays, articles written especially for them; there are at least two reasons for this.

Reason #1: Unbelievers get very frustrated that I don’t answer all their multitudes of questions, which are inevitably followed up by a plethora of additional inquiries, and then succeeded by still further clarifications. Some of the questions are sincere but the majority of them are a waste of my time when most can be answered by Googling or going to an apologetics site. So I don’t answer them.

And they quit.

One of the more corrosive of the lot wrote this about being “censored” at this blog: “No big deal I was about done with him anyway he is a serious girlyman.” (sic)

Another, ExPatMat, got so upset he wrote, “We’ll have to agree that you’re a expletive deleted. I’m done with this blog.” 

This is an evangelism blog. My time is best spent on encouraging believers, specifically, believers who share their faith. All 2% of them.

I will say this to the atheists who have given up on this blog: Sayanara to the cynical. (To be quite honest, I can’t understand why atheists would want to deal with someone as intractable and pig-headed as me. There is just no way that I will deviate from the truth of who Jesus is. It would be like denying my wife and children exist.)

“But,” an atheist may write (as one has), “according to 1 Peter 3:15 you are to ‘always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. ‘ “

This is indeed true. I’ve answered the majority of questions or provided resources that would be helpful to an inquiring mind. Proverbs 26:5 says “Answer a fool according to his folly, or he will be wise in his own eyes.” I have done it.

Lately though,  Proverbs 26:4 seems to fit the occasion better: “Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him yourself. “

Reason #2 (on why fewer atheists are posting to this blog): I’ve banned or “censored” them.

Some atheists are so crude and uncouth, lacking any dignity or tact and discretion, that I’ve decided to ban them, or “censor” them severely. I’ve offered a way for them to be restored to commenting on this blog: apologize. But knowing the pride of the human condition, I do not expect them to ever humble themselves and admit that they were wrong.

One of the banned atheists wrote an email proving my point: “I thought about apologizing, just so I could clear some things up. But I get the feeling you would post the apology but wouldn’t allow anything else.”

The other banned atheist (of whom I have deleted all references to him at this site) wrote, “It’s because you don’t deserve an apology and in fact owe US apologies for the dishonest deleted crudity you have pulled by censoring and re-writing our posts to take them 180 degrees out of context.”

When I challenged two Christian commenters who were guilty of too much snarkiness to apologize, they did.

“When pride comes, then comes disgrace, but with humility comes wisdom.”
Proverbs 11:2

“The proud and arrogant man—“Mocker” is his name;
he behaves with overweening pride.”
Proverbs 21:24

So, I say “Adios!” to the arrogant. (But I know you will still check in and read these columns.)

Which brings me to my apology and repentance.

I apologize to the Christians who have had to endure much contempt by Godless unbelievers here. I’ve allowed too many nasty comments, too many insults, and too many disrespectful remarks against my God.

No more. I repent.

I’m going to go back to the original mission statement of this blog: Written to be an encouragement to those who share their faith and a motivation to those who don’t.

I may still have the occasional post addressed to atheists, possibly even weekly, but I will be more diligent in deleting offensive comments, which means I’ll be back to getting five or less comments a week.

I close with the words of Jesus: “Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces.”

As we have seen here, this statement continues to be true.

Comments (93)

  1. Steve L.

    Reply

    Excellent post from top to bottom!
    To any atheists who come here for the last time, I leave you with these words:

    “The proof is complete!
    The evidence is abundant!
    There is no excuse for the doubter!”

    C.T. Studd

  3. Laurie

    Reply

    well said Steve. It’s kind of funny that atheists find these blogs that are not directed at them and then get upset when things are not catered to them. We appreciate the encouragement and little by little we are stepping out of our comfort zone!! thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Nameless Cynic

      Reply

      Well, weirdly enough, Laurie, the reason I started posting here is that I was responding to a post saying that all atheists are immoral. Which kind of feels like it was directed at me. Know what I mean?

      • vintango2k

        Yeah I started posting here when I found this website in a thunderf00t video, back when Ray was doing his Origin of Species forward nonsense. I found it odd that the comments were not disabled and/or heavily censored as they are in many religious blogs. I had never encountered many fundamentalists over the course of my life and I found them fascinating. I have since managed to engage in a few rather interesting conversations with a few fundies which lead to some actual changing of minds. I don’t really care if you believe in God or not, its the lying about, ignoring of, or just being incorrect about science that I find repugnant.

  4. Bob Clitherow

    Reply

    In the words of Ray Comfort, “Without God, atheism would have no reason to exist.”

    • BathTub

      Reply

      Ray is a fantastic example of another Evangelist with an unbeliever readership who refuses to use it as a resource and instead turned his back on it to only sell directly to other Christians.

      • Pam Hawley

        The Atheist obsession with Ray Comfort is very unhealthy. Ray must be doing something right if the enemies of the Lord are continually attacking him.

        One good thing about Atheist Tuesdays is seeing how mean spirited Athestis can be.

      • BathTub

        I was responding to Bob’s comment.

        By Pam’s standard Obama must be doing something right given all the republicans are attacking him… right?

        Just using that same standard.

  5. Paul Latour

    Reply

    Hallelujah! It’s WAY about time and I’m so glad about your change of heart in this matter. I tried dealing with atheists a while back and quickly got burned out by their continuous psuedo-philisophical/cynical/hypocritical/snarky/rude and blasphemous circular rants that I dropped them like a hot potato and carried on in the “encourage the Christian” department.

    You done good while you did it, Steve and I know your approach and reasons was always with good intent. It must be pointed out, as well, that just because you will not be doing Atheist Tuesdays anymore does NOT mean that the effort was futile. Who knows but the Lord how He used your dealings with the atheists to effect some lost souls among them toward Calvary and eventually to Heaven?

    You are a true soldier of Christ. I thank the Lord how you encouraged and continue to be of encouragement to me and to the many others who follow your blog.

    God bless you, Steve!

    Paul

      • BathTub

        It’s a nice handy excuse to cover up any possible failures on your point isn’t it Steve? Do you think that attitude will help you become a better evangelist?

      • Schmader

        “What’s the point of teaching someone who really doesn’t want to be taught?” -Steve Sanchez

        That is another kernel of wisdom that I’m going to memorize. .

        I don’t think the atheists that come in here want to be taught. Most if not all of them have their minds made up. The atheists visit Christian sites to argue with Christians like other posters have explained.

      • Nohm

        My mind is not “made up”, Schmader, because I acknowledge that I can be wrong.

  6. perdita

    Reply

    I’m glad you’ve given up on Atheist Tuesday. I recall it came about because you were frustrated with Azou (Garrett). Don’t take this wrong, but you should really stay away from atheism and evolution.

    When I challenged two Christian commenters who were guilty of too much snarkiness to apologize, they did.

    Hasn’t it been established that Schmader is a poe?

    • Glenn Parker

      Reply

      Perdita, I would counsel you to take your own advice and stay away from atheism and evolution. Repent while there is still time! Jesus won’t hold your past against you.

      • vintango2k

        How does one stay away from a scientific fact Glenn? If evolution is a myth or a lie how do you explain endogenous retroviral insertions within the genetic codes of living things on the planet?

      • Glenn Parker

        My explanation: you have misunderstood the facts. You see, when all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. Your hammer is evolution.

      • perdita

        Until there’s compelling evidence for your God and creationism, I’m rather stuck with atheism and evolution. If I can be shown that I’m wrong, then I will change. But all I’ve been shown is unsupported assertions, misrepresentations, and faulty logic.

      • Nohm

        Hi Glenn,

        My explanation: you have misunderstood the facts. You see, when all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. Your hammer is Goddidit.

        Please note that I also haven’t answered vin’s question:

        “how do you explain endogenous retroviral insertions within the genetic codes of living things on the planet?“

      • vintango2k

        Misunderstood the facts? How does one misunderstand how ERVs infect human gametes, insert their RNA into the healthy cell at random points along the human host DNA chain, mutate to become inert, then get passed on to successive generations in a testable and observable manner that falls in line with proven heredity. Hint, you, your father, your grandfather most likely all have similar ERVs, but your further removed cousins may not, its one of the methods that doctors can test for paternity, a science I assume you trust?

        If you accept that, then why do you and your ape cousins share the same identical pattern of ERVs inserted perfectly into your DNA without fail up until a rough point of separation similar to one that could be observed between you and your cousin if the two of you were infected with different ERVs and passed them on to your children. Does that proven test for common ancestry suddenly stop working when comparing you to an ape?

        Evolution isn’t a hammer Glenn, its a scientific fact, the only reason why you perceive it to be a hammer is because often times the truth can HIT like one. The truth can break worldviews, the truth can shatter ideas, and a lot of times it can hurt people’s feelings and egos. In ye olden days, before germ theory, people thought illness was the work of spirits, devils, and Satan, today we know better in that we understand how viruses, bacteria, and fungus can afflict and infect the body. People resisted these new notions a lot at first, but they have, for the most part, learned to move beyond superstition and accept truth, I encourage you, sincerely, to do the same.

      • Glenn Parker

        vintago2k, are you of the opinion that the opinion of scientists cannot be wrong?

      • vintango2k

        When you take antibiotics (I assume) or medicine ( I assume) are you trusting in the fact that millions of dollars, thousands of man hours, clinical trials, and painstaking research went into the production of that medicine?

        Or do you think that the medicine works because its the doctor’s ‘opinion’ that it works? Its not my opinion that this happens Glenn, and its not the opinion of scientists either, its the observation, the looking, testing, checking, and drawing of conclusions based on the fact that viral infiltration of cells happens and the process of tracing it has yielded perfectly accurate results… and that in turn also proves common ancestry. The entire science of phylogenetics is based off of similar testing processes and its teaching us more about the lifeforms of this planet than we have in decades past. You’re more than welcome to look this stuff up if you doubt it, the research isn’t hiding in some back alleyway like some sinister conspiracy theory =)

      • Nohm

        For the record, I’m of the opinion that the opinions held by any particular person, much less any particular scientist, can be wrong.

  7. Schmader

    Reply

    One thing I have found useful about reading Atheist Tuesdays, especially the repost from last week is that it is futile to argue with atheists. Last week’s post really shed light on how atheists behave.

    I get what you tried to do Steve and I get what you are doing now. The atheists will probably think that they have gotten a victory but they will realize someday that all of their victories are losses.

    You haven’t failed Steve. The clouded understanding of the atheists have made them fail.

    • Steve Sanchez

      Reply

      Thanks Schmader.

      I never thought I failed. I just realized that my time is better spent equipping and encouraging Christians. All the apologetics in the world can never save an unbeliever. That is pre-evangelism. I focus on EVANGELISM.

      Besides, it’s God who saves any way. I’ll let Him deal with them.

      And I will continue to re-post the Best of the Best of Atheist Tuesdays for my new readers. This will be educational on two fronts:

      1. The article itself.

      2. The comments from the atheists. They will see how true every word that Jesus said about the pearls of the Gospel being cast before the unbelieving mindset can be.

      • Glenn Parker

        apologetics = “pre-evangelism”. I like it! I never thought of it that way, Pastor Steve, but you’re absolutely right. Thank you for your always helpful insight.

      • perdita

        All the apologetics in the world can never save an unbeliever.

        You’re right. I’ve read a number of apologetics and they’re really geared towards beleivers. While their purported function is to address unbelievers, in reality they are to reinforce a believer’s viewpoint and to assure believers that they’re right and everyone else is wrong.

      • vintango2k

        Misunderstood the facts? How does one misunderstand how ERVs infect human gametes, insert their RNA into the healthy cell at random points along the human host DNA chain, mutate to become inert, then get passed on to successive generations in a testable and observable manner that falls in line with proven heredity. Hint, you, your father, your grandfather most likely all have similar ERVs, but your further removed cousins may not, its one of the methods that doctors can test for paternity, a science I assume you trust?

        If you accept that, then why do you and your ape cousins share the same identical pattern of ERVs inserted perfectly into your DNA without fail up until a rough point of separation similar to one that could be observed between you and your cousin if the two of you were infected with different ERVs and passed them on to your children. Does that proven test for common ancestry suddenly stop working when comparing you to an ape?

        Evolution isn’t a hammer Glenn, its a scientific fact, the only reason why you perceive it to be a hammer is because often times the truth can HIT like one. The truth can break worldviews, the truth can shatter ideas, and a lot of times it can hurt people’s feelings and egos. In ye olden days, before germ theory, people thought illness was the work of spirits, devils, and Satan, today we know better in that we understand how viruses, bacteria, and fungus can afflict and infect the body. People resisted these new notions a lot at first, but they have, for the most part, learned to move beyond superstition and accept truth, I encourage you, sincerely, to do the same.

  8. Donald "The Dog" Allen

    Reply

    Atheists Tuesdays are great. I look forward to them. I’m sad to see them go BUT I see Steve’s wisdom in this matter. Steve is building something and it seems that all the atheists are doing is coming by and interrupting his work. They are asking Steve what sort of materials he is using, they are giving him their opinion on how he ought to do it, they are critical of what he is doing and lastly they jeer and make fun of him. The atheists seem to have gotten together and decided that they are going to do whatever it takes to slow Steve down or ruin what he is doing. Does Steve do that to anyone? Nope.

    All Steve can do is show the atheists the way, which is “The Way” Jesus Christ. I don’t think he is under any obligation to spend hours and hours catering to the atheists. I agree with Steve. If the atheists have questions or they don’t like the content of this blog they can go to Google or they can address their grievances on their own websites or websites that are devoted to Christian apologetics.

    Lastly, if Steve decided in a day, a week, a month or a year to resume Atheist Tuesdays or have Atheist Fridays, I support that too. Steve should blog about what he wants to and spend his time the way he wants to, period.

    • Steve Sanchez

      Reply

      Thanks Donald!

      It’s not entirely going away. I will be re=posting “My Best of…” and, on occasion write articles that expose the folly of unbelief!

      Stay tuned.

    • Nohm

      Reply

      Hi Donald,

      You wrote: “Steve is building something and it seems that all the atheists are doing is coming by and interrupting his work.”

      And all you are doing is ____________.

      (Please fill in the blank.)

      “They are asking Steve what sort of materials he is using,”

      How is this a problem?

      “they are giving him their opinion on how he ought to do it,”

      Some of those opinions are with the intention, misguided as it may be, to be more persuasive. You might not view that as important, but I do.

      “they are critical of what he is doing”

      It’s a public blog; that kind of stuff happens.

      “and lastly they jeer and make fun of him.”

      It’s the internet. And seriously, do you think you have any leg to stand on when it comes to talking about people making fun of other people? Seriously?

      As I’ve asked a few times before, just who do you think you’re fooling?

      Who?

      “The atheists seem to have gotten together and decided that they are going to do whatever it takes to slow Steve down or ruin what he is doing.”

      Oh, come on now, paranoid much? I don’t know of anyone who wants to ruin what Steve’s doing. People disagree with him, but no one is out to get him.

      Either us computer nerds are far too stupid to think up an efficient way to ruin what Steve’s doing on a website, or maybe… just maybe… it’s a paranoid conspiracy fantasy.

      My money is on the latter.

      • Nohm

        Donald wrote: “The atheists seem to have gotten together and decided that they are going to do whatever it takes to slow Steve down or ruin what he is doing.”

        (Emphasis added.)

        “Whatever it takes”?

        My goodness. If we were actually doing “whatever it takes”… what would that look like, to you?

        Serious question, actually. What would this website look like if all us atheists were actually doing “whatever it takes” to ruin Steve Sanchez? Do you recognize this as offensive hyperbole, or do you actually believe this?

  9. Garrett

    Reply

    ♫We’ll meet again
    Don’t know where, don’t know when.
    But I know we’ll meet again, some sunny day.

    Keep smiling through
    Just like you always do,
    Till the blue skies drive those dark clouds, far away.    ♫

    • Steve Sanchez

      Reply

      ♫ We all live in a yellow submarine
      Yellow submarine, yellow submarine
      We all live in a yellow submarine
      Yellow submarine, yellow submarine
      We all live in a yellow submarine
      Yellow submarine, yellow submarine
      We all live in a yellow submarine
      Yellow submarine, yellow submarine ♫

      • perdita

        Ewww – Beatles. (Because I’m an atheist and have to disagree with you 🙂 )

    • Nameless Cynic

      Reply

      ♫ Imagine there’s no heaven
      It’s easy if you try
      No hell below us
      Above us only sky
      Imagine all the people living for today       ♫

  10. BathTub

    Reply

    So lets get this straight.

    You’re an evangelist, with a built in audience of Unbelievers.

    You admit your methods are ineffective.

    Do you use the resources God has given you to improve your evangelism? Or just use your time to insult the unbelievers and encourage others to emulate your self admittedly ineffectual evangelism techniques?

    If you are from the Living Waters school of evangelism clearly the answer is ‘Mock the very people you are supposed to be evangelising to, make no attempts to improve your evangelism.’

    You collected up a list of questions that you raved over at the time…Instead of actually answering those questions we got ‘Atheists are… better murders, liars, psychopaths, etc instead.

    You allow trolls to lie about others, and continually act in ways you don’t allow from the atheists.

    Given every opportunity to improve your evangelism, you’ve run away. Just like Ray Comfort.

    How can that be taken as anything other than an admission of defeat?

    Once again we have a demonstration that your evangelism is merely about selling yourself to other Christians, not bringing the lost Christ.

      • BathTub

        Your welcome.

        It’s certainly much easier to evangelise to the saved than the lost isn’t it?

    • Glenn Parker

      Reply

      Bathtub, there is nothing “ineffective” about what Pastor Steve is doing. The Gospel will save your soul if you’ll let it; that’s more effective than anything else in creation.

      There may be better preachers than Pastor Steve, but NOBODY can preach a better Gospel!

      • BathTub

        Glenn, Steve flat out admitted it was ineffective.

        We are still waiting for you (both of you actually) to point out where the bible divides up the hundreds of old testament laws and then allws you to pick and choose which segments you obey.

        What do you think is a more effective way of answering Glenn? Giving the bible verses or running away?

    • Beth Renee

      Reply

      Steve is not ineffective BathTub. What you think is a result of denying that God exists.

      BathTub until you are free of that evil jockey Satan you will continue to race towards Hell. You think you are free but in reality Satan is spanking your hindquarters, riding you hard and steering you in the direction that he wants you do go.

      • Nohm

        Hi Beth,

        If a Muslim told you the same thing (i.e., that you will continue to race towards Hell, thinking you are free but in reality Iblis is spanking you, riding you hard and steering you in the direction he wants you to go), due to your sin of ascribing partners (Isa) with Allah, what would be your response?

      • vintango2k

        Beth, without reason and evidence, how can you tell one mystical claim is correct over another? How do you know that isolating yourself with fundamentalism is the “correct” way to live your life and not just the will of Satan? In other words what proof do you have that you’re not just being manipulated by a malevolent entity?

      • carl

        It is too bad that the Kentucky Derby is over. That could be the beginning of an interesting sermon prior to such an event.

        Good metaphor.

      • BathTub

        Beth, how about you actually read what Steve has said rather than knee jerk responses?

    • Glenn Parker

      Reply

      Actually, it IS on your head. But my prayer is that someday you will gaze at your own name in the Lamb’s Book of Life.

      • theB1ackSwan

        Not like it’s up to him anyway. If God is responsible for converting people, and he already knows if he will or not, what’s the point in evangelizing or praying to begin with?

      • Steve L.

        We are commanded to pray (Colossians 4:2) and to tell the lost about salvation in Christ Jesus! (Matthew 28:19)

        When will you bend an ear to the good news?

      • theB1ackSwan

        So you do as you are commanded even though it makes absolutely no sense and it is, at best, a time waster?

        And people wonder why I don’t believe.

      • Steve Sanchez

        You don’t believe because you suppress the truth in unrighteousness. You don’t believe because you are dead in your sin and trespasses. You don’t believe because you are stiff-necked and hard-hearted. You don’t believe because you are of your father the devil. You don’t believe because God has not chosen you (so far).

        These are the biblical reasons for why you don’t believe. So the people who wonder why you don’t believe need to study their bibles.

      • Nameless Cynic

        Hmm…

        You don’t believe because you suppress the truth in unrighteousness.

        Wait, wait… “suppress the truth…” – I’ve heard something like that recently… Oh, right! “…that I’ve decided to ban them, or “censor” them severely.” Huh. Interesting…

        You don’t believe because you are stiff-necked and hard-hearted.

        Cool. “I use the ability (which you believe comes from God) to understand logic and reality” has magically changed to “I’m too stubborn.” God doesn’t want us to use that which you think He has given us?

        You don’t believe because you are of your father the devil.

        Aw, now, see? In your need to disparage those who you view as your “enemy” (hey, we’re just trying to save you from your own stubborn insistence on illogic), you’ve gone and mangled your theology.

        What can Satan create, Steve? Come on, he’s a destroyer, not a creator – are you going to let us cynical non-believers defeat you with your own text? Again?

        You don’t believe because God has not chosen you (so far).

        Is that your problem, Steve? Were you chosen last for sports, so once you find a team that will take you, you follow blindly, even as they go off a cliff?

        (Pop psychology – it’s a tool for everyone…)

      • Whateverman

        You don’t believe because you suppress the truth in unrighteousness

        And you pretend to understand because you’re scared of not having an infallible rule book for how your life should be lived.

    • vintango2k

      Reply

      I think the conversation really broke down, because too often, the atheists would toss science, facts and historical references to people who aren’t used to that sort of thing. I think, for the most part, it was an honest attempt at education, but I think the unwillingness to accept the argument came from a general lack of trust. Many of the believer posters on this blog seem to come from a conservative us vs. them mentality and that science is just a big conspiracy against God, so trusting the arguments that non-believers make is understandably difficult, but facts, evidence, and truth are easy to come by if you just have the drive to look for them. I would simply just encourage people to look at what we’ve discovered in nature and science, look at all of that, and see that however comforting your worldview is, there’s still so much more out there that you might be unaware of, and be humble about it.

  12. Mark Murnan

    Reply

    Steve, I admire your willingness to indulge unbelievers to the extent that you have, for as long as you have. I think Ray Comfort came to the same conclusion.

    I’ve had conversations with New Age adherents, both on Facebook and on my blog, since that seems to be the prevalent belief system here in So. FLA. Pretty much the same results.

    Thank you for your substantial efforts to minister to unbelievers of any stripe (atheists, false converts, pan/panentheists, Catholics, JWs, etc.). As a fellow evangelist, I’m honored to be a co-laborer with you and I really enjoy your encouragement and humor.

    May God continue to be glorified in our labors for the Kingdom, and may He grant repentance to the lost, leading them to a knowledge of the Truth, that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, who has captured them to do his will.

      • vintango2k

        Nice lumping the Catholics in with unbelievers Mark, very loving statement there.

      • BathTub

        It’s part of the Living Waters ministry to exclude Catholics.

        Oh, until it’s time to promote 180.

    • Steve L.

      Reply

      And how can one come to faith within a system where the TRUE Gospel is not preached?

      • Nohm

        Hi Steve L.,

        Who determines what “the TRUE Gospel” is, and how is that verified?

      • vintango2k

        Catholics preach belief in Jesus Christ as your lord and savior, he died for your sins. Done. That was what I was taught, I guess the Judge not lest ye be judged line is just lost on some of you guys =)

      • Steve L.

        “Catholics preach belief in Jesus Christ as your lord and savior, he died for your sins. Done. That was what I was taught”

        I guess you made my point! You were taught in the Catholic church but you’re an un believer; works for me!

      • vintango2k

        Wow Steve… just wow….

        The height of your double standard is so great I can not possibly see the top of it.

        So anyone who becomes, atheist, agnostic, or joins another religious faith who was raised in an evangelical Christian church… that’s all on that particular church? Now can you name a SINGLE church that has NEVER lost members due to people losing their faith and following a different denomination? Are we to assume that if any church loses members for that reason… that they’re teaching false faiths and are comprised solely of unbelievers?

      • Steve L.

        People who “lost their faith” were false converts; never Christians to begin with! (1 Jn. 2:19)
        Simply put, you must repent of your sins and trust Christ fully to become a Christian!
        And … you must be fed the Word of God as a means for spiritual growth!
        This is not done nor is the doctrine of repentance taught in the Catholic church!

      • vintango2k

        Wow… again…

        So basically a Christian is a Christian until they have reason to doubt… and then if they START to doubt they never were a Christian in the first place. It’s like it was a plot all along! I mean it makes sense, I know lots of people who start off with assumed conclusions from the get go. Darwin ALWAYS knew from the beginning that species evolved. Newton ALWAYS knew from the beginning how Newtonian physics worked. In fact, did you know that John Wilkes Booth, from the age of 5 always knew he was going to assassinate Lincoln?

        Did the thought occur to you that a lot of ex-Christians sincerely and truly put their trust in Christ? Why would God allow them to be led astray if that sincerity was at one point, very strong?

      • Steve L.

        It’s always best to go to scripture to bolster a point! Here in 1Peter 1:7 he makes this statement about “true faith;”

        “so that the tested genuineness of your faith—more precious than gold that perishes though it is tested by fire—may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ.”

        If what you claim to be faith is put to the test and found faulty, then you never were a true believer! A true Christian will trust God no matter what trial is brought to bare in his life! God never promised you heaven on earth; that comes only after you have “endured to the end” (Matt. 24:13)

      • vintango2k

        Ironically Steve many Christians lose their faith by a sincere desire to learn MORE about their faith. Bart Erhman chose his entire career path based solely on a passionate desire to defend Christianity by learning as much about the early days of the church and older text versions of the Bible. This directly lead to his agnosticism because what he learned… about what’s real… in reality… clashed with his dogma and he had to pick one over the other. Christians often insulate themselves from things such as discoveries about the early Christian church and about science for that matter. I’ve seen it before in the conservative Christians that I know, and its fascinating, they literally can not stomach hearing about things that are happening around them that conflict with their worldview. Its sad really, but I understand.

        Now tell me Steve, if your bible said that all rabbits were the color red… would you believe that over actual observation of rabbits in reality, or would you stick with the bible and insist that rabbits are red? What about if they chewed cud?

      • Steve L.

        Haven’t seen any verses on red rabbits, but they do chew the cud (Leviticus 11:6 ESV)
        If The Word of God interferes with your world view, YOUR world view is wrong!
        Believing it the totality of scripture is mandatory to being a TRUE Christian. Things you can’t understand or difficult sayings you wrestle with must be believed by faith (as ultimately everything in the Christian life!) Either you believe that the whole of Christianity is bound up in the bible ‘and is able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus’ or you don’t. You can’t pick or choose what verses are in or out!
        You learn and grow in the Christian life by reading (studying) God’s word, and as a Christian, the Spirit of God will meet you where you are in your walk with Him at a given time.
        More later; it’s time for dinner :<)

      • Nohm

        Hi Steve L.,

        You wrote: “but they do chew the cud (Leviticus 11:6 ESV)
        If The Word of God interferes with your world view, YOUR world view is wrong!        ”

        So, to clarify, you believe that the statement “rabbits chew cud” and the statement “rabbits do not chew cud” are worldview (i.e., subjective) statements, and not factual (i.e., objective) statements?

        In other news, I think he gave you your answer, Vin. Pretty amazing stuff, eh?

      • perdita

        “If The Word of God interferes with your world view, YOUR world view is wrong”

        We’re not talking world view here. We’re talking observable facts.

        (I don’t happen to push the ‘rabbits chewing cud’ bit. Maybe if they’re a King James Only…)

      • perdita

        Wait… you’re not saying rabbits do chew cud, are you?

      • Steve L.

        Dear Nohm:
        Please don’t lump world view and cud together as if they were being discussed in the same paragraph!

        I’ll say it again:
        If The Word of God interferes with your world view, YOUR world view is wrong!
        “The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.” (1Cor. 2: 14)

      • Nohm

        Fair enough, Steve L. Maybe I misunderstood.

        Back to the relevant questions posed to you, Steve L.:

        Do rabbits chew the cud? Yes, or no?

        Is this a worldview question, or a question of observable fact?

      • vintango2k

        Yikes, Steve L, its been an observable fact that Rabbits do not engage in rumination or chud chewing, they eat their own droppings on occasion but its not the same thing. I could ask a different question,

        How many four legged insects are there in the world?

        Do you believe in a spherical Earth or a disc shaped one?

        Are bats mammals or are they birds?

  13. thesauros

    Reply

    I haven’t read all the comments so I’m sorry if I’m repeating what someone has already said. Regardless, I’m going to disagree with the gist of the post. I understand that it’s your blog and you can run it any way you want. Personally? I find it really annoying when people, atheists or Christian censor what other people say. I happen to allow anything to be said on my blog in part because I think it’s good for people to see exactly what certain individuals are like. Not all atheists are jerks and I’m evidence that not all Christians are polite. Are we going to pretend that as Christians we are so sensitive that we can’t even be in the world let alone not be of it?

    • vintango2k

      Reply

      thesauros, since frequenting this blog on occasion is a pastime of mine, I’ll share some observations. If you are liberal or accept evolution as proven fact, then you have a leg up on many of the people who post here when it comes to many of the discussions. I can understand how you would see and then comment on how some of them are sensitive and seem to not be a part of the world when denial of what’s actually been observed to be going in said world doesn’t seem to occur for them. Or they could just be trolling.

  14. Nohm

    Reply

    Hi Steve,

    As always, it’s my opinion that you can do with your blog whatever you wish.

    You wrote: “[T]he majority of [questions] are a waste of my time when most can be answered by Googling or going to an apologetics site.”

    When I ask you questions, I understand that I can use google or go to an apologetics site to get an answer, but that won’t necessarily be your answer. I ask questions to you, Steve, because I’m interested in your answer. Otherwise, there’s not much of a point in me posting comments to your blog.

    You wrote: “To be quite honest, I can’t understand why atheists would want to deal with someone as intractable and pig-headed as me.”

    This question seems to assume that the intention of the particular atheists is to change your mind.

    If the particular atheist, such as myself, has no intention of changing your mind on the issues of your faith, then these adjectives that you apply to yourself are irrelevant in the context of the discussion.

    I post on the blogs of people like yourself because I am fascinated by people who think drastically differently than I do. Most of these people (e.g., Paul Latour) have no interest in a converation, and shut me down quickly. You have allowed me to try to interact with you, and for that I am thankful.

    That is why I do this.

    You wrote: “There is just no way that I will deviate from the truth of who Jesus is. It would be like denying my wife and children exist.”

    I get this (well, about as well as I can get it). Again, this is irrelevant to me for this context because I have no intention of trying to get you to deviate from the truth of who Jesus is; I don’t think I’d be successful and it’s not an interest of mine.

    I can’t speak for how many other people, atheists included, have the intention that matches mine, so I can’t speak for what they do and how they react to certain issues. I simply find the way you think and answer questions to be incredibly interesting and utterly fascinating, and so I ask the questions that I ask.

    At the point at which you no longer want to interact with me, I assume you’ll make that point known, and I’ll respect your decision and leave. Until that point, I’ll continue to comment and ask questions, accept that you won’t answer all of them, and experience the answers that you do give.

    Thank you.

    • Michael Mock

      Reply

      My interest is a little different from yours. I came here for two reasons, really.

      The first was in the hopes of encouraging our host to consider the idea that most atheists are not, in fact, “suppressing the truth in unrighteousness” but rather have come to their conclusions… “legitimately”, if you will. We might not be correct, but we are honestly and sincerely doing the best we can with the information we have.

      I’ve pretty well given up on that. Steve himself claims that we cannot believe unless God quickens our hearts first, which would seem to indicate that I’m stuck as a nonbeliever until God makes the first move; I don’t really have any choice in the matter. However, because of the ‘suppressing the truth in unrighteousness’ passage, Steve also claims (either simultaneously or alternately) that I am opposing God. Now, I don’t see how those views can possibly not be contradictory, and for that matter I don’t see how someone could “oppose” an all-powerful being in any meaningful way. So, while I have no interest whatsoever in trying to argue our host away from his Christianity, I do think that on this particular topic his views are rather seriously misguided. But as long as Steve holds that those are the only way to read the relevant Bible passages, no word or example of mine is going to change his mind.

      My second reason was to suggest that the sort of public evangelism and handing out tracts that Steve does (and teaches others to do) is generally more bothersome than effective, and in some cases probably counter-productive. Steve remains unconvinced, and I don’t have anything to add to what I’ve said about it already, so again – I’ve pretty well given up on it.

      I do, however, appreciate our host giving me a fair chance to offer my outsider’s view and that feedback. Having done that, I don’t feel like I have much else to add, so I only drop back by every once in a while, to see if there’s anything particularly new or interesting.

      Also, while the decision is of course entirely Steve’s, I’m inclined to agree that the Atheist Tuesday posts haven’t been terribly productive; or rather, that they’ve produced as much as they’re ever going to. So I won’t be disappointed to see them become less frequent, or go away altogether.

  15. carl

    Reply

    “Atheist Tuesday” is very entertaining to read. I personally never truly got offended by what our atheist friends had to say. The snark, the insults and the disagreements created an interesting environment to learn about what people thought and how they reacted. This is the Internet after all and the anonymity allows people to say (write) what they wouldn’t in “real” life.

    I understand where you are coming from too Steve. Your website is about Evangelism and you should focus your time and energy on things that you want to. We only have so much time in the day. Personally I have to give you some mad props for reading, editing and responding to what I imagine are a lot of comments. Some of the other evangelical and apologetics websites have a staff of people running the website. It is a lot of work for just one hombre.

    You can’t satisfy everyone Steve and sometimes you do just have to say “whatevs” to our atheist friends and then go about your business and focus on what you feel needs to get done. I think everyone understands that.

    Here is a little passage that I found that I think fits in well with the spirit of this post:
    1. Matthew 10:7-15 King James Bible (See verse 14)
    7. And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. 8. Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. 9. Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, 10. Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat. 11. And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, inquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.
    12. And when ye come into an house, salute it. 13. And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you. 14. And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. 15. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

    • BathTub

      Reply

      carl what method do you use to determine the difference between people who won’t listen to you, or you are just doing a terrible job of presenting the message?

      When was the last time you raised someone from the dead and people refused to listen to you?

      • carl

        Bath Tub I don’t have a method.

        BathTub, when was the last time you prayed to God? God can bring you back from the dead and give you a new life. I’m not talking about just an afterlife, but a new life today!

      • BathTub

        So you just admitted you have no way of knowing if you are doing a good job and seem not to care.

        One thing the Christians here have taught me is that when they think they have caught you out they will respond quickly with a snappy answer. When you catch them out with a hard question, well then they suddenly disappear or desperately change the topic.

        Right Steve?

  16. Robert Moss

    Reply

    It has been awhile since I have posted on here and have not had the time to read all 70 plus responses to Steve’s blog. I know you cannot appease everyone when you write a blog. Will we make mistakes and err by being human when making posts? Yup.
    I know I do not make everyone smile and want to give me a big kiss on the lips everytime I post on my blog or on my facebook. Yet i will continually trust the Lord to help me word my blogs that will glorify him in speaking the truth in love.

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