How to Witness to an Atheist

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A well known evangelist and Christian television show host is trying to equip believers to respond effectively to atheists.

In his book Intelligent Design vs. Evolution: Letters to an Atheist, Ray Comfort uses actual e-mails between himself and an atheist that took place several years ago.
null When the atheist inquired why Comfort did not accept “scientific facts” supporting the theory of evolution, the evangelist responded that there was more proof that the world is flat. That interchange eventually led to Comfort’s writing of the book.
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Comments (25)

  1. Chris

    Reply

    The ridiculous argument that morons that Ray Comfort continue to propagate is absurd and childish. How can their be a building without a builder, how can there be a painting without a painter, etc, is on the level of a third grade mentality.

    If you are going to try and disprove evolution then you can start by detailing specific criticisms of the theory and subject it to the scientific process. The fact is that evolution has been verified through every branch of science using Radiocarbon dating, Uranium-lead dating, Uranium-thorium dating, Potassium-argon dating, and rigorously tested again and again to verify the theory.

    Whats next after inteligunt desine (purposely misspelled) fails miserably? I think this satire below is sadly not too far of a stretch for you and your flock.

    http://www.theonion.com/content/node/39512

  3. DoogieTalons

    Reply

    Why do Creationists QUOTE QUOTE AND QUOTE and NEVER EVER research EVER. To the point that they NEVER research the very thing they oppose.

    Every creationist argument shows a complete lack of knowledge of evolution, it’s like they never read their opposition past the first thing they disagree with.

    YET Evolutionists and true scientist Research a Creationist Claim before debunking it with facts. So we always seem to win or seem to be agressible simply because we cannot be knocked down. Our reason is sound and tested and can hold up to more than a casual glance unlike creationist theory.

    Compare Answers IN genisis to talkorigins The people that write answers in Genisis SEEM retarted.

    Thier version of the world population and how it sprang form two people DOES NOT ANSWER WHO MARRIED CAIN it Claims Cain maiired other ofspring of Adam and Eve yet ONCE CAIN IS MARRIED Adam and eve bagat a third Child Seth… ? no explaination for that one. Yet alone the wiping out of humanity leaving only noah and his familty to interbreed us all into existance. !! Just unreasonable laughable desperate backtraking.

    No science has ever taken place for the creationist NONE, they find a quote which matches thier belief and press it hard.

    They go on about chance and monkeys and rocks to life it’s all rubbish man did not decend from Chimps.

    Man and Chimps shared a common ancestor.

    A rock didn’t spring to life, base elements and forces became life.

    Chance has nothing to do with natural selection.

    Natural selection is not chance its the opposite its the filtering of what works for the organism in the setting time/location that they are in. Nothing to do with chance.

    Is there such a thing as an evangelical Athiest ? I want to be one I want to show people a way out of ignorance and mental slavery into enlightenment and intelligent progression.

    RIchard Dawkins sign me up Reason and Science if far more apealing than Dogma, Fairy Stories an Myth.

  4. Steve Sanchez

    Reply

    Great! You can indeed use this blog as your forum… you are very passionate! May I suggest one thing? Can you take a little more time with your logic and punctuation, because I’m having a hard time following your thoughts… I don’t mean to be insulting, just helpful! :>)

  5. Andreas

    Reply

    .. and as for the book: What I’ve read in it tends to be a little more than the standard arguing and “lines” we might know from the Way of The Master TV series or other materials from Comfort.

    The atheist he is writing with isn’t a stupid guy. But big surprise (to some who read this 😉 )!! Ray Comfort isn’t a stupid guy either.

    The book is recommended. 🙂

  6. Chris

    Reply

    I love the Master TV series, it is one of my favorite comedy outlets,. Can you give us some examples from this book that is proof against evolution or perhaps a 4.5 billion year old earth? I would be really interested in them.

  7. Jennifer Cisneros

    Reply

    May I suggest two videos?

    The Priviledge Planet Documentary and The Case for a Creator

    These two documentaries show very strong, scientific (may I add) evidence for a creator.

    If you check it out, please do so with a willingness to have an open mind.

    Thank you.

  8. Jennifer Cisneros

    Reply

    Sorry,

    The first documentary is called

    The Priviledged Planet…not Priviledge Planet…sorry for the error

  9. Patrick S.

    Reply

    Doodie,

    Doodie: Why do Creationists QUOTE QUOTE AND QUOTE and NEVER EVER research EVER. To the point that they NEVER research the very thing they oppose.

    Me: Research to find a theory, a theory, the same thing you keep finding and call fact but cannot prove it. Have you done your research, Doodie?

    Doodie: Every creationist argument shows a complete lack of knowledge of evolution, it’s like they never read their opposition past the first thing they disagree with.

    Me: We are taught that junk in school, it was stupid then and it is stupid now. And to believe it, makes you twice as stupid. Enjoy yourself.

    Doodie: YET Evolutionists and true scientist Research a Creationist Claim before debunking it with facts. So we always seem to win or seem to be agressible simply because we cannot be knocked down. Our reason is sound and tested and can hold up to more than a casual glance unlike creationist theory.

    Me: Can you disprove the Ten Commandments? How about this, thou shall not lie? you can agree with that. How about this, thou shall not steal? You can agree with that. Thou shall not commit murder? I’m sure you would agree with that. Thou shall not have any God before me? Ohhhhh! that hurt didn’t it? Intelligence is your god huh? ouch!

    Doodie: Compare Answers IN genisis to talkorigins The people that write answers in Genisis SEEM retarted.

    Me: So do you…like the evolutionary chart is retarded. Man is once again trying to make a monkey out of himself.

    Doodie: Thier version of the world population and how it sprang form two people DOES NOT ANSWER WHO MARRIED CAIN it Claims Cain maiired other ofspring of Adam and Eve yet ONCE CAIN IS MARRIED Adam and eve bagat a third Child Seth… ? no explaination for that one. Yet alone the wiping out of humanity leaving only noah and his familty to interbreed us all into existance. !! Just unreasonable laughable desperate backtraking.

    Me: Your version is retarded. Were is evolutionary man today, nit wit? Why are we not seeing the ape turn into a lower then man version today? why did it stop? Whoa, another theory…the fact is it’s still stupid.

    Doodie: No science has ever taken place for the creationist NONE, they find a quote which matches thier belief and press it hard.

    Me: Here is science, conscience! (With Knowledge) Have you ever lied Doodie? You’ve broken the 9th commandment. And you knew it before you told it. You Conscience bares witness against you. So with knowledge you have broken the law of God. He will judge you…I did not even need a test tube for that experiment. The fact is true…I can prove it over and over again. The scientific method is working.

    Doodie: They go on about chance and monkeys and rocks to life it’s all rubbish man did not decend from Chimps.

    Man and Chimps shared a common ancestor.

    Me: According to your family tree…Can we see your family resemblance to Bubbles, Michael Jackson’s chimp? Can you send us a picture of yourself? Wait he’s not related to you. King Kong is…

    Doodie: A rock didn’t spring to life, base elements and forces became life.

    Me: Is the conscience real? Why does it tell you the truth? Why are you able to reason?

    Doodie: Chance has nothing to do with natural selection.

    Me: Who gave nature the right to select? Does nature decide to origin of the universe? Was nature before the universe? Did the universe choose nature? Hmm! Than the universe gave nature the right to choose? Hmm! Why is nature different on every planet, why doesn’t it choose the same there? Hmmm! Is there more than one nature? Hmmmm!

    Doodie: Natural selection is not chance its the opposite its the filtering of what works for the organism in the setting time/location that they are in. Nothing to do with chance.

    Me: If it is not by chance then nature is intelligent, so does nature learn? How does nature learn? who teaches nature, the universe…hmmm!

    Doodie: Is there such a thing as an evangelical Athiest ? I want to be one I want to show people a way out of ignorance and mental slavery into enlightenment and intelligent progression.

    Me: You can be whatever you choose except a Christian…you cannot choose that, you can try but you’ll have no relationship with God. You’ll be at best a Hypocrite. Better for you to choose, evangelical Atheism.

    Doodie: RIchard Dawkins sign me up Reason and Science if far more apealing than Dogma, Fairy Stories an Myth.

    Me: You’ve already signed up for the dogma, fairy stories and Myths.
    Maybe you should come up with the Ten Commandments of Natural Selection. Everything else you’re doing is stupid.

  10. Patrick S.

    Reply

    Chris,

    You’re back, good to see you’re still alive, there’s still hope.

    How did the Fossil Rat miss evolution? Hmmm
    Check this out… http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13328579/

    As you look, you’ll see the way they try to cover it up….then returning to the correct answer. It’s pretty cool…do your homework though. lots of money grubbing scientist trying to get the grant to study this. Great stuff for the beginner Deist like yourself. Might want to retest the testing methods, this thing is still alive and kicking and still fits the fossil. it only missed evolving for 11 million years.

    I thought the fairy in Cinderella turned that rat in to a horse, oh…that’s right, at twelve, it turned back to the rat.

    Enjoy, the link goes alot futher, so don’t stop looking until you have all of it. Your the research expert, research…I got all of it. Can’t wait to see your findings. Been waiting for this opportunity, since you said we don’t research. We’ll stay with this until you can find the missing links in evolution…or I might just give you the answers after you look stupid trying.

    By the way, need to change the subject….what is reality? just going back to a series of debates we had a few weeks ago. You said, “By definition, God is outside of our reality and can not be proved or disproved” So define reality for me, I got something for ya!

    I can’t wait to get to the math…no bones just calculations. We’ll look at stuff like E=mc2, we’ll have some fun with this one. but when we get to physics and Calculus, thermodynamics and you’ll really be intrigued. No more skeletons in the closet theories. Legitimate stuff we can prove.

    Evolution is mathematically improbable and impossible. We’ll do the math and make you a real legitimate Deist, just like Einstein, Darwin and Andrew Flew.

  11. Patrick S.

    Reply

    By the way, Doodie is an idiot not an Atheist. He’s given us nothing to prove nothing, just rhetoric and intellectual sounding blah blah blah.

    Heard it before…but he’s on the blog, so might as well address him. He thinks if he can say “no god” enough, he’ll actually believe it.

    He reminds me of a kid holding his hand to his ears saying, “I can hear you!” “I’m not listening.” Nothing is nothing Doodie, prove something. Give me a Law, that we can use to prove something. At least a measure of 0. Give me something Mr. Research, “Prove it”, you can QUOTE Me.

  12. DoogieTalons

    Reply

    Hey Steve, thanks. I don’t mean to use your site as a forum. You are a most gracious host. We probably disagree on a great many things. But I know this is your blog and you have the right to accept/delete comment.

    I will also spell check and reread my posts to keep em neat for ya. The thing is once my fingers do the talking they slip over the keyboard like a puppy on ice.

  13. DoogieTalons

    Reply

    Patrick.

    I am an Atheist. I do not believe in god pure and simple. I don’t want to get in argument, just put my point across.

    There is no proof of god, the Bible cannot prove god just as the Book of Mormon cannot prove god. Just as the Koran does nothing to convince you to follow the prophet Mohammed.

    Evolution is a vast subject A lifetime’s work for many scientists. I cannot confess to prove it but I have read an awful lot of evidence and I believe it. I have seen things under the microscope that back it up I have seen fossils millions of years old, and I believe the various dating techniques are not as wrong as creationists make out.

    Adam and Eve is a fairy story. Cain married someone from a whole race of people living in Nod. This is just daft if Adam and Eve were the gods only creation of humans. I have read many creationists ideas that Adam and Eve had other children ect but some translations of the bible say Seth was the THIRD child and he came along after Cain got married.

    But your god killed all these people and started again with Noah. Once Noah left the Ark 7 People repopulated the planet ? You believe this ?? Really ???

    I have read a lot of answers in genesis and various other sites and not one piece of scientific evidence is ever presented just quotes of “scientists” not actual science.

    Patrick.

    Morality is not a uniquely religious concept.

    Thou shalt not lie, though shalt not kill…. all very well and good. What about “When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be punished; for the slave is his money.” SLAVES !!! HUMAN LIFE AS CURRENCY !!!… SOME GOD !!!

    Patrick you said.

    “Me: According to your family tree…Can we see your family resemblance to Bubbles, Michael Jackson’s chimp? Can you send us a picture of yourself? Wait he’s not related to you. King Kong is…”

    Despite me saying we did not come from chimps, you rant like this ? actually acting exactly to the letter how I said you would ?

    Again we come from a common ancestor which was probably more ape like than human like but none the less we all evolved from the same gene pool. I find this theory so simple to comprehend. I contemplate in wonder how slow gradual changes to genetic structure form such a complex being as myself. I do not need god to fill in the gaps.

    Now another one and it is a perfect example of the way your mind works.

    you” If not by chance then nature is intelligent…. nature learns… who teaches nature…”

    A very weak argument. You cannot think past what you do not know so you fill the gap with a fairy story ? The same reasoning that Greeks told their children Zeus made the thunder …

    YOU “If not chance then nature is intelligent.” ME: Nope not necessarily.
    YOU” Who gave nature the right to select?” ME: No one !!
    YOU: “Who teaches nature” ME: Why does it HAVE to be a “WHO” why can you not see that because YOU don’t understand it evolution just happened we know this because are here, no matter how improbable we are here and it’s great. It does not have to be a WHO or a WHAT. NO ONE GAVE NATURE A CHOICE TO SELECT IT JUST HAPPENS. It happens daily. We are an over all taller race of men than merely 100 years ago… because women CHOOSE the genes…. Are you short ?

    People like Darwin and the scientist that follow did not give up when they reach the end of reason, they reason some more. They put forward hypothetical arguments and try and prove themselves wrong. GOD is too easy GOD is just a cop out and to say GOD DESIGNED THE UNIVERSE IS JUST LAZY.

    Whatever happened it will be found to be a very simple event. Probably even more simple than you. ( That’s for calling me an idiot )

  14. Patrick

    Reply

    Doogie

    I was begining to think you had nothing, which is good…now we have a starting point. I apologize for being crude but that was all I was reading from you, so now we can dialog instead.

    I am pressed for time right now but I will follow up with you on your points, by the way, common ancestor…in creation, God said none compariable to Adam. The ape is not compariable, would you marry one and have children just to see the results. NOT COMPARIABLE. Does it matter how close you see the resemblance, Not Compariable! That was easy.

    I will also explain the population, so you can get pass that sticky point reasoning. No doubt, some things are mystries in the scriptures but definitely available to us.

    Another thing, as I quickly run out of time, IT JUST HAPPENS…wow. Sorry but that does not explain it. That sounds purely like faith. Are you sure you are an atheist? If evidence is found to show what you believe is not true, you have no reconciliation method to the truth but to keep looking. Scripture has not changed and you cannot disprove.

    Science is constantly changing its theories and proving itself wrong. Rewriting conclusions everyday to re-explain what was once taught as true. Times and dates…there is no solid foundation, it just keeps sliding away to more design than just happened. Creation has not changed and you still cannot disprove it. Pretty good for Moses who heard it from God over 4000 years ago. So as we go along through the scriptures because you reference them, and see your thoughts about them explained. What do you do? new evidence require new investigation. You’re obligated by science to examine it for truth and validity.

    By the way, Darwin was a Deist (by definition), not an Atheist. You don’t seem to be an Atheist…I’ve talked to real deal, you’re trying to settle on this theory until proven otherwise. True?

    Sorry about the chimp comment…I thought you wanted crude responses since you were giving them. I’ll be civil from here on out.

    I am tall but I am also short…sounds like a play on words but it’s true.

    Enjoy your day…

  15. Robert Perry

    Reply

    Regarding “why do creationists quote quote quote but do no research”: well, first of all, that’s false. Whether one agrees with their conclusions or not, there are creationist geologists and paleontologists out there who are doing original research. The Creation Research Institute founded by Henry Morris does a lot of this.

    And why do creationists “quote quote quote”? Well, the ugly fact is that a lot of the best evidence against evolution comes from evolutionists, like the Piltdown Man that was withheld from inspection for decades by Richard Dawkins’ British Museum, or the Chinese bird-lizard found to be fraudulent after a cover photo in National Geographic a couple of years back.

    Or, if we want to talk about radioisotope dating, what about the igneous strata at the bottom of the Grand Canyon dated at 0.7, 1.7, and 2.7 billion years old by three different dating methods by the USGS? At least two of the three methods don’t work in this case.

    Put simply, quoting is a great way to get where you want to go. As a wag once said, “I saved three hours in the library by spending six weeks in the lab.” Science (and any intellectual endeavor for that matter) depends as much on the journal as on the laboratory. It’s no sin for creationists to use the same method as their evolutionist counterparts.

  16. Chris

    Reply

    Patrick, you obviously know NOTHING about evolution, at an embarrassingly incompetent level. Tell me how your little rat disproves anything? I assume that the point of your weak example is to prove that no evolution has happened ever, that the good lord created everything exactly as we are 10,000 years ago and that nothing has ever changed, correct?

    The chances of finding any the hundreds of millions of animals that have lived on this earth over the past 4 billion years is very rare. There are hundreds of species that exist today that have changed very little, there are some that have died out, and there are some that have evolved into new species. If an organism is perfectly adapted to its environment then the effect of variation, mutation, gene transfer, genetic drift ,gene flow, selection and adaptation will be very low. Just because the skeletons of these two rats match identically, that still does not mean there are evolutionary changes that have not taken place. But a smart guy like you already knew that.

    Have you ever picked up a book about evolution or do you just subscribe to the Kent Hovind school of science and wipe your hands of the whole messy business of education.

    As for your reality argument, I do not believe a god exists anywhere inside or outside of our reality. I was only stating the common religious apologist copt out so that they can continue to justify having no scientific evidence for god. Can you disprove that Zeus exists? How about Thor?

    Not to butt-in with your conversation with Doogie, but you do realize that chimp DNA differs only from human DNA by less than 3%? It is a scientific fact that a blood transfusion from a chimp can successfully be given to a human. How do you explain that?

    Since your so fond of math, can we agree that the speed of light is 670,616,629.384 miles per hour? Using this fact, scientists have determined the farthest galaxy in the universe is 12.8 Billion light years away. This means that it has taken 12 billion years for this light to reach us. I assume that your god created the rest of the universe 12 billion years ago then snapped us into existence just in time to see light that was created eons ago.

    I can’t wait to here your further “arguments”.

  17. DoogieTalons

    Reply

    Chris no worries on my behalf on interrupting. I read a Creationist website once that said that god put the moving light closer to earth so Adam was not in a void. So that sorts that out ;)…

    This then makes me wonder how we have observed dieing stars out of this range still millions of years old. It makes me chuckle reading Young Earth stuff.

    Patrick
    The closest word I can see to what I am is a Strong Atheist, I simply believe in no god at all, and I deny the existence of one. I would like to see mankind move on from religion, forget quoting The Epic of Gilgamesh as The Creation and Noah Story, forget exodus 21 – 25 as the Babylonian law tablet, just move on “and explore space both inner and outer in peace forever” ( Bill Hicks ) I did joke earlier about evangelical Atheism but really when I’m not on the web reading stuff about creationism I just go on about my peaceful life and I’m looking forward to the birth of my child and everything’s ok with my space in the world.

    My only cause for concern is when I look out of my nice little bubble, at Gay hating religious nuts, Islamic Fundies, George Bush and Tony Blair screwing the world up over campfire stories that finally got written down I despair.

    Religions time is up, you have had more than 4000 years and have been found lacking.

    If you research all major Bible stories they have deep roots in Samarian history. Even names and Ark Size. Some scripts from this time tell of the collation of these stories from their ancients.

    It’s very easy to see the Bible as a compilation of these, it’s even easy to see that Moses heard of the law system in Babylonia and took it with him to Egypt wanting to use it to form his own nation. It’s there it’s written. it’s also hypothesised that by claiming your law as as the new word of god was what was needed to surplant previous laws.

    Chrisitians did it with jesus to step over Moses, and Islam did it with Mohammed to step over christ, The Mormons did it with Joseph Smith to step over Mohammed and and the Church Of England did it with the King… well so he could get divorced !!

    My favouritie quote today !!

    “Have you ever picked up a book about evolution or do you just subscribe to the Kent Hovind school of science and wipe your hands of the whole messy business of education.” A big smile spread across my face reading that it works on so many levels.

    Steve: Thanks for this sounding board. How do you put up with us Heathen Pagan Infidels ?

  18. Robert Perry

    Reply

    Chris, how do we measure those 12.8 billion light years? Think about it–even the orbit of the earth doesn’t suffice to get us much more than a few light-years, geometrically speaking. The simple fact here is that the size of the universe is inferred through complex mathematical models, not measured or proven.

    Also, many thanks for conceding that the fossil record is impossibly scanty for proving evolution. That was, for what it’s worth, one of Darwin’s own objections to his hypothesis; that if the fossil record didn’t greatly improve, he might have to discard his hypothesis.

  19. Professor Chris

    Reply

    Robert, I didn’t realize that I needed to conduct an Astronomy 101 class for you but here it goes.

    There are several methods used to measure interstellar distances. For nearer stars, we can use direct triangulation: The position of a star relative to more distant background stars is measured, and then is measured again six months later. Since the Earth is at the opposite side of its orbit than it was six months before, the minute shift in the star’s apparent position (know as its “parallax”) is a direct measure of its distance from our Solar System. This is where the term “parsec” comes from. It means “PARallax of one SECond”; in other words the distance at which a start will have a parallax of one second of arc (which is about 3.26 Light Years).

    For more distant stars, the properties of their spectra can be used. Different spectral classes of stars have different known brightness ranges, so by comparing their apparent brightness with the known brightness range the distance can be estimated.

    Certain types of stars have other properties that allow their distances to be measured very accurately. A type of star called a “Cepheid variable” gets brighter and dimmer in a fixed cycle. The maximum brightness correlates with the rate of the cycle. Thus, if you can see a Cepheid variable at all, you can know its distance just by measuring the cycle time of its brightness. This method has been used to measure the distance to nearby star clusters outside our galaxy.

    For more distant galaxies we can determine their distance by their “redshift”. Since the universe is expanding more or less uniformly on a large scale the farther away a galaxy is, the faster it appears to be receding from us. The light from these galaxies is doppler-shifted into the red by this apparent motion. This redshift can be measured on a spectrograph and, using the Hubble constant, this redshift can be converted into a distance.

    As for my comments on the fossil record, hundreds of thousands of fossils have been found that support evolutionary theory and new ones are found every day. I’m not sure how you interpret that as a concession that archeology can’t prove evolution. You know darn well that if an artifact was found that supported your Biblical myth that all the creationists would embrace the very dating methods you now dismiss. Oh the irony.

  22. Robert Perry

    Reply

    Professor Chris, all that I’ve known since being a child and spending lots of weekends at Chicago’s Adler Planetarium. I was getting at a more basic issue; red shift only measures the relative velocity of objects with hydrogen fusion, not their position. To get position, you need to make some assumptions to create a model.

    Now if, for example, you need to account for, say, 98% of the mass of the universe with a “Higgs Boson” or other dark matter, or if there is a “cosmological constant” set arbitrarily in the model, then you’ve got to assume that the model is only as good as its assumptions–and the evidence for a good cosmological constant, Higgs boson, or other dark matter just isn’t there yet.

    And the fossil record? If it is as complete as you say, why was the China “birdzard” fraud worthy of a National Geographic cover? The simple fact is that any apparent “missing link” between existing types is still big news, and that demonstrates that Darwin’s objection to his own theory has not really been answered. It’s also worth noting that none less than Steven Jay Gould stated that proof for evolution was not to be found in the fossil record.

  23. Patrick

    Reply

    Gentleman,

    I been out of the loop for a few days but before I catch up, I must apologize to Doogie for calling him a name. I have been instructed and rightfully agree that I need to be gracious to our host and also his guest. So if I have offended anyone. Doogie and Chris, you guys are great and it always good for us to broading our understanding of how you think.

    Now I’m off to catch up…

  24. Robert Perry

    Reply

    One more thing; I’ve noticed a lot of ad hominem attacks (insults) among many of the posters here. I would suggest that maybe, just maybe, y’all ought to consider what you would do if you suspected that Someone just might consider that offensive.

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