Comments (53)

  2. Ryk

    Reply

    Of course according to the Bible, her soul is safe. Believing on Christ is the only work required. These other works like agreeing with your Commandments pitch are optional as Jesus does not require them.

    Do you think if she believes in Jesus, he will forgive her or are there works she must perform, like repentance.

    • Steve L.

      Reply

      There is no salvation without repentance! Christians are not saved BY their good works but are saved to DO good works. It is crucially important to know the difference.

      “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.” (Ephesians 2:8-10)
      Can you dig it?

      • Ryk

        So there are works, got it. See I thought salvation was supposed to be a free gift. Kind of like Jesus said.

      • Really?

        I disagree with your biblical interpretation. I think it would be more accurate to say God judges you by what you have done, and what you have failed to do. I don’t hazard to say God judges you by your potential to do good works.

        Everyone has the potential to do good works, however everyone has a greater potential to do evil works.

      • Ryk

        Ordo you mean someone who does not repent is not really saved and is just a false convert. If one of you bears false witness, or lusts or hates, that means they did not repent and are hellbound sinners.

        See that would make sense, but what I usualy get is a bunch of dodgy excuses abiut how Christians struggle with sin, but are still saved even though theu sin because they have faith. Wgich would be OK untill they also say “there is no salvation without repentance.”

        So wich is it? Faith alone? Or faith plus repentance.

      • Whateverman

        There is no salvation without repentance!

        You must not expect that you will be perfect in “repentance” before you are saved. No Christian can be perfect. “Repentance” is a grace. Some people preach it as a condition of salvation. Condition of nonsense! There are no conditions of salvation. God gives the salvation himself…”

        — Charles Spurgeon

      • Whateverman

        So you agree with Spurgeon?

        What about your supporters, here, who urge us skeptics to repent. Do you agree with them too?

  3. Glenn Parker

    Reply

    Wow. You could summarize her testimony like this: “I believe all the parts of the Bible except the ones that make me uncomfortable.”

    • BathTub

      Reply

      That would describe all Christians. We are often pointing out where Christians ignore the bible. In fact there is a thread going on right now where WEM is pointing out that Steve is ignoring the bible in the Atheist Tuesday thread.

      • BathTub

        Well we could start with the exact same example I just called Steve out in the that AT thread, that certainly applies to every single Christian here on this blog.

      • Steve L.

        You’re being vague; what exactly are you referring to?

      • BathTub

        Yeah so vague I gave you the exact place to look.

        The conversation around

        1 Peter 3:15
        Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect

    • Blythe

      Reply

      Most christians are like that, you done see much stoning of unruly kids these days, after all.

      • Glenn Parker

        You don’t know much about Scripture, do you?

      • BathTub

        We know plenty, that’s why Steve has to run away from answering questions like…

        “Show where the bible defines the ~613 old testament laws into subgroups and where it says that only certain subgroups apply today.”

      • Whateverman

        It’s a proof of salvation.

        Who cares? I don’t need to repent to be saved. Specifically, who needs proof of my salvation? You?

        Jesus doesn’t, so why does it matter?

      • Whateverman

        Then don’t worry about it.

        Why tell me to repent and believe the good news if it doesn’t matter, Steve?

        PS. this mini-conversation is a good example of why your critics are so persistent. There’s a clear disconnect between what you say and what you claim to believe, and you obviously are unwilling to examine it.

  5. Blythe

    Reply

    Deuteronomy 21:18-21 – talks about stoning children
    there are many OT verse that modern day christian’s ignore and explain away.

      • BathTub

        Of the ~613 old Testament laws how many of them have explicit examples of the act actually occurring? And how is that supposed to be any sort of defence?

      • Blythe

        are you saying the it doesnt count if theres no example of it happening in the bible? Please clarify.

      • Whateverman

        It appears that there is no record of any child being stoned.

        What does this have to do with Blythe’s point?

        Steve?

      • Whateverman

        The Law worked. There were no stonings.

        So… because there are no documented cases of in the Bible, this means didn’t occur in Biblical times?

      • Whateverman

        My last reply looks like it had characters stripped from it. I’m reposting for clarity.

        Steve wrote: The Law worked. There were no stonings.

        So… because there are no documented cases of {X} in the Bible, this means {X} didn’t occur in Biblical times?

      • BathTub

        A fantastic example of a answer we all know you don’t actually believe.

      • Whateverman

        Can’t know for sure though.

        Yet you claimed the absence of children being stoned means the law worked. You claimed to know for sure then – why not now?

      • Whateverman

        I thought about it a little more.

        Did you? Or did you simply mention this because you’re suddenly “tired” of the conversation?

        And if you DID think about it, doesn’t this suggest that your critics are wise in not taking what you say without skepticism? After all, what happens if you speak on matters of our salvation and then change your opinion after “thinking about it”?

  6. Blythe

    Reply

    Im not sure what point you are trying to make? Did they stone all the unruly children, but failed to record it? Are you suggesting that this may be a valid response for today – seeing as its a OT law? Or is this a law that is not longer revelant, and if so why not?

    • Steve Sanchez

      Reply

      Apparently the law deterred unruly children. I’m sure they would have recorded it as a warning. The Law, it seems, was enough. Of course I don’t advocate stoning. This Law was for Israel.

      • BathTub

        So it’s your position that no crime ever happened unless it was recorded in the bible.

      • Blythe

        your God advocated stoning children – the law was given to moses by God,

  7. Blythe

    Reply

    Matt 5 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

      • BathTub

        Note I already have a completely ignored question asking where the bible splits the laws into groups and where it says you only obey the ones you like.

        1 Peter 3:15
        Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect

      • Blythe

        If that was what Jesus said, then christians are under it as well – or do you pick and choose from what Jesus said as well as from the OT?

      • BathTub

        Another fine example of how the Christians all flee from the discussion over ‘simple answers’.

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