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Weekend Read: D. L. Moody, the Practical Personal Worker

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WOW! What an encouraging overview of D. L. Moody’s life this short article presents. Take 15 minutes and read the practical tips offered on how this faithful man made it his life’s work to deal with sinners personally.

This article is by Faris Daniel Whitesell and was originally published under the title “Great Personal Workers.” Copyrighted in 1956 by Moody Bible Institute and is now public domain.


The dying nineteenth century recorded the death of one of its greatest men. Dwight Lyman Moody (1837-1899), world-renowned worker for Christ, went to be with his Lord on December 22, 1899. From the life of this humble man rivers of living water had streamed out to bless America, Great Britain and the world.

Acclaimed by many as the leading platform evangelist of the century, famed as the founder of Christian institutions, prominent as a Sunday school and YMCA worker, D. L. Moody also held highest rating as a personal worker. He wrote no books on personal evangelism, but numerous references in the D. L. Moody literature prove that he was a practical and persistent personal evangelist and that he inspired many others to engage in this work. That he gave top priority to personal soul-winning as a Christian responsibility there can be no doubt.

It is said that in holding special meetings for the conversion of his fellowmen, Mr. Moody has traveled over 1,000,000 miles, has addressed over 100,000,000 persons – 25 million of whom were young people – and has dealt personally with nearly 750,000 individuals. Click here to read the rest.

47 Comments

  1. Nothing to do with article, but I find it funny you link to the Darwin Awards website.

    • I get some of my Sudden Death articles from there.

      Make sure you read about Moody, this wonderful godly man who cared about sinners such as yourself. Especially the part where Moody deals with a skeptic (who, I’m sure, would have had an atheist blog if they were available then) who called Moody a Sky Pilot:

      As Moody was returning after a night meeting on a crowded Madison streetcar as a strap-hanger, a rider asked who the big man was. Told he was Moody, the revivalist, the scoffer asked him a question, “Hey, Sky Pilot! How far is it from Chicago to heaven?”

      You’ll have to read the rest of the article to find out how he replied to this unbeliever.

    • Nohm,

      To what “made-up” story are you referring?

  2. Steve,

    If a made-up story gets someone to accept Jesus as their Savior, do you think the story was justified?

  3. Steve,

    I think the answer to that is obvious (if it’s not obvious to you, it’s the one about Moody and the skeptic), but let’s take any made-up story. If a made-up story leads someone to accepting Jesus as their Savior, do you think the story was justified?

  4. Basically, it’s a two-part question. On one hand, I’m curious how skeptical you are of stories that put evangelists in a good light, but that aren’t an honest re-telling of the situation (I’d argue that you’ve done this at least once before), and on the other hand I’m basically asking, “is lying for Jesus justified?”

  5. Lying for Jesus is never justified.

    I love the story though. If you ever become a Christian, you will see how God works, and the truly interesting, marvelous “co-incidences” that happen the lives of believers and those who are touched by them. I actually choose to call them “God-instances.”

    But for now, I understand that you see most of these accounts as untrue. Sad.

  6. Okay, here are a couple things that go against the story:

    Moody died in 1899. This story is from an article printed in 1951. Dr. Clinton N. Howard wasn’t a witness to this event – he saw neither what happened on the streetcar nor did he see the man pushing towards the platform (this appears to take place in Chicago). He’s re-telling a story that he says he heard when he was a boy during one of Moody’s Buffalo campaigns.

    A few weeks ago I heard the term “preachers story” for the first time.
    These are stories that are not necessarily factually true, but are believed to show a greater truth and are presented as if they actually happened to the preacher relating the story.

  7. Whether it’s possible or not is not my issue. It’s equally possible that this was a ‘preachers story’ that the doctor took for fact. It’s possible that Howard mis-remembered the story. Because there isn’t enough information to state it really, really happened in the way it was remembered, I wouldn’t use it or believe it.

    “I’ve personally seen, in my own life, stranger “Godincidents” than that.”

    Maybe, but that says nothing about the truth claim of this story.

    If I need an example I’ll either use something from my life or something that has been verified. Rarely I’ll use an unverified story and only with disclaimers, (i.e., don’t know if this really happened, but I once heard…).

  8. “And what about that evolution story?”

    Steve, you should know better than to bring this up. You believe the propaganda you’re fed from creationists, even though you’ve been shown that they misrepresent things.

  9. So, is it possible that it can be true?

    Certainly. But I’ve read a lot of these stories (they’re really popular within Islam, actually… maybe even moreso than Christianity) that have a few of major problems for me:

    1. They don’t match the reality that I know (and I was a Christian… I know, I know, you think I was false convert most likely).

    2. None of these stories explain *why* the individual suddenly changed their mind.

    3. There are significant logistical issues in the stories. But that kinda goes back to #1.

    But yes, it’s *possible* that it can be true, just as if I told you that I once was a Heisman trophy winner who won $100 million in the lottery and then gave it all to Hope Chapel who unfortunately lost the envelope with the money and it fell into the hands of a homeless woman who now lives in a 100-room mansion in Inglewood and she lost her faith in God due to her good fortune, that is “possible” that it’s true.

    But would you believe that story? Wouldn’t you find some problems with that story?

    I’ve personally seen, in my own life, stranger “Godincidents” than that.

    Okay. That’s a completely other issue.

    Although I wonder why starving kids in Africa seem to not get many positive “Godincidents”. Huh.

    And what about that evolution story?

    Okay, and what about it? You’ve shown time and time again that you don’t actually know what the “evolution story” is! It’s like asking me “what about that Little Red Riding Hood story” when you think that it involves a native-american thief (red hood) on horseback (riding) who is a young boy (little) and his adventures with cowboys and buffalo.

    Here’s the question, Steve: where do you think is the best place to find what the “evolution story” is? Why? And why haven’t you gone there to learn what the “evolution story” is?

    Anyways, I see that you’ve italicized “story” in your comment. Evolution is both a fact and a theory, Steve. Do you understand why? If not, why haven’t you tried to educate yourself about this before having a point of view on it?

  10. In return, Steve, I would ask you:

    So, is it possible that it can be completely made up?

    So, is it possible that it can have gone through the game of “telephone”, where multiple re-tellings of the story change parts of it?

    So, is it possible that it can be honestly mis-remembered?

    If any of the above were true in this case, does it affect your interest in the story of the skeptic and Moody? Why, or why not?

    That’s what perdita was talking about with regards to “preacher stories”. I have been there, back when I was a Christian, when friends told stories of “Godincidents” that I knew didn’t go down the way the explained it, because I was also there.

  11. You mean the one backed up with well-documented evidence? The “story” you won’t even consider because you’re close-minded by your own admittance?

    I’m willing to discuss it if you don’t randomly run away from us when we apply the pressure to you.

  12. #1: I believe the story; it’s okay if you don’t.

    #2: Evolution is impossible (See Genesis).

    #3: Unless you repent, you too will perish.

    There. I fixed it.

    And no, no further dialogue is necessary. Only you guys (and gals) could make an encouraging true account of a wonderful evangelist controversial. You crack me up! 🙂

    Do any of you people have families? With kids? Me thinks not. I’m glad that i’m able to provide you with quality weekend entertainment though. 😉

  13. “I’m glad that i’m able to provide you with quality weekend entertainment though.”

    Well, you do make me laugh. Let’s see, first you specifically ask us to read a story in a linked article. When Nohm says he thinks it’s made up, you ask why. When we answer you, you chide us. lol.

    It’s okay if you believe it true. Your standards don’t seem to be very rigorous, though. And, again, I don’t see why I should accept your version of Jesus or God when your standards of evidence are so low.

  14. Wow the passive aggressive levels on this forum are reaching a boiling point, compared to most net forums there would be open flaming going on. Its good to see people remaining somewhat civil though.

    One day we’re going to get you to read a textbook on modern biology Steve, maybe a college course or two? All we’re asking is that you study what evolution is ACTUALLY about and how scientists arrived at the conclusions they have. When you do that, you’ll realize that they didn’t arrive at the conclusions they did because they wanted to (I mean who honestly wants to accept that we evolved from lesser ape like mammals, or lesser mammals depending on how far back in the genealogy you go) when its much nicer to believe we were all conjured by a loving deity who will grant you eternal life, and inherit a paradise upon death. Evolution is not a story or a belief structure or a “story” Steve, and I hope that you find the time to find out why that is. You’re never too old to learn new things, and who knows science might hook your interest, the world of cell biology is a fascinating place.

    And as far as entertaining, I find this site very entertaining, its my guilty pleasure at work that I check it and post on breaks and what not. I enjoy hearing people’s different takes on things and opinions and its that reason alone that I hope you never close the comment section. Also what does have families or kids have to do with anything, other then us spending time with them in favor or posting on this website?

    I have no comment on the story, as humans we tend to forget details and facts and embellish in favor of entertaining or hooking an audience. I mean God made the universe in 6 days, to most people when they hear that they think that’s pretty amazing and otherworldly. Telling them then it was a gradual process taking billions of years of converting hydrogen to ‘heavier’ elements on the periodic table, and then letting gravity do the rest, sounds boring and too ‘sciency’ I suppose.

    And lastly,

    #2: Evolution is impossible (See Genesis).

    Steve, sometimes I think you post that stuff just to get a rise out of people. In other words, you do it for the LOLZ. Oh and I think Perdita is our defacto leader. No promise of pie yet but I think any day now I might get a slice.

  15. Sorry – I thought we were having a nice conversation and Steve’s last comment just got to me.

  16. Vintango: Thanks for visiting. I have no plans on discontinuing the comments. I appreciate the viewpoints, too, especially yours and a few others.

    I’m just amazed that so many atheists find a Christian evangelism blog interesting, and wonder how they all find the time to comment, and so thoroughly, too.

    As far as the Creation account vs. evolution… it’s not that it’s easier to believe, even though it is, it just so happens to be true. Evolution can’t be true if the Creation account is true. That’s why I feel no need to study evolution. It’s like that old Pastor Story about the Secret Service not studying counterfeit money, but being so familiar with the real thing that they know what’s real.

    You wrote: Steve, sometimes I think you post that stuff just to get a rise out of people. In other words, you do it for the LOLZ.

    My response: Who? Moi?

    You wrote: Oh and I think Perdita is our defacto leader.

    My response: She does seem to be the the gentlest. Nohm seems to do pretty well, too.

    In fact, I love all the atheists who visit here. Really! I’d buy you all a Peet’s coffee if you visited this way, lunch, too…and I’d promise not to preach!

  17. You’re just seeing it, Vinny. Steve will act like a brat, but doesn’t like it when the same is done to him.

    He’s a hypocrite.

  18. Cool little article on Moody. I would love to find his biography that his son wrote. I imagine if I google’d it I could find the book.

  19. “I’m just amazed that so many atheists find a Christian evangelism blog interesting”

    I also frequent lolcats and comicscurmudgeon. 😉

    “Evolution can’t be true if the Creation account is true. ”

    Then keep it at that – without going the extra step of misrepresenting the science. Personally, I think demanding a literal Genesis is like building your house on sand, but that’s me.

    Hey, maybe Genesis was the first preachers story – not necessarily factually true, but used to show a greater truth.

    “Oh and I think Perdita is our defacto leader.”

    I am so making t-shirts.

    • perdita wrote in response to me: “Evolution can’t be true if the Creation account is true. ”

      Then keep it at that – without going the extra step of misrepresenting the science. Personally, I think demanding a literal Genesis is like building your house on sand, but that’s me.

      Me: I have. I don’t go any further than admitting that i believe the biblical account these days. Saves a lot of time and calloused fingers.

      Funny you should mention about “building your house on sand.” Check out Jesus’ comment on building materials from Matthew 7:

      24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”

      And, perdita, here’s a better T-shirt for you 🙂

  20. You are right, Steve: evolution and a literal interpretation of Genesis cannot both be accurate.

    So, what we do is look at the evidence. We are approaching two centuries of evidence. We have a robust fossil record, backed up by various dating methods, to show that all species share a common ancestor. Multiple disciplines of science all have their own evidence that point to evolution. It a scientific theory, just like the theory that germs make you ill.

    Genesis has…a book. Written millennia ago. It claims the world is only 10,000 years or so old. But the evidence does not point to this. Geology shows our earth being billions. Go into space and you find planets older still.

    To believe in creation would be the same as believing in evolution if evoluion’s only evidence was a book written thousands of years ago saying we evolved. It’s absurd.

  21. Wow Steve, some might… just MIGHT suggest you wear that t-shirt instead. Since you’re refusing to learn anything about evolution or physics for that matter, since their is theories on the origins of life and the universe contradict the account of the Bible. But you’re right at least you aren’t proactively spreading lies about it like Ray Comfort. I can’t wait to see what stunt he’ll pull next after the Origins giveaway.

    @ Perdita – Lolcats hmmm?

  22. Steve, did you see Richard Dawkins latest video where he spends the last few minutes reading some of this hatemail from Angry Atheists?

    Wait, did I say Angry Atheists? Of course I meant Cranky Christians.

    Yes, I can already hear you “Oh they aren’t True Christians™!

    I just thought it would be a fun follow up for you Angry Atheists series.

  23. I guess you’re trying to be insulting, but if perdita wears that shirt then you would be reading it and should follow its advice.

  24. Wow…I only visit this site because i did have a complete family but since one of my family members is part of your group and kind of looks down on us now i thought i would stop by and see what sort of nonsense is being talked about on here. Way to insult the people that actually have emotions and put their own thoughts on here as appose to just copying text and pasting to get their points accross. People like you have been around before except they just copied things from earlier books or other versions…way to be original and way to insult people Steve.

  25. Hi Steve,

    Is there any particular reason why you completely avoid answering my questions? I do my best to answer any question to pose to me.

    Also, here’s a quick question. Since you don’t actually know what evolution is, how do you know that the theory contradicts Genesis? Do you know that simply because someone else told you? How do you evaluate claims to see if they’re correct or not?

    I hope you find it within yourself to try to answer these as best as you can.

    As for the “do you guys have families??” thing, we’ve covered that before; I type quickly and so my comments take only 5-15 minutes to type up. I *do* have breaks from my family from time to time, you know.

  26. Sorry, that should have been:

    “I do my best to answer any question that you pose to me.”

  27. I ask this, Steve, because you wrote: “And no, no further dialogue is necessary.”

    Who’s talking about “necessary”? Do you not even have the curiosity? That’s the thing that boggles my mind the most about fundamentalists such as yourself… a seemingly lack of curiosity.

    Do you dislike dialogue with people who think differently than you? Why or why not?

  28. Hi Steve

    Davy would be my younger brother.
    As you can see he’s not a big fan of Christianity and especially not of the evangelistic kind.
    In my immediate family I am the only one that is a follower of Christ and so the rest of the family thinks I have lost my mind and somehow am doing them wrong.

    Scripture that comes to mind: John 15:18 “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world,but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.”

    Or Luke 12:51 “Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother…. ”

    Anyways – my response to Davy about his comment that you (Steve) are insulting people is that the picture with the shirt was meant with humor – I at least got a good chuckle out of it. So lighten up a bit – this is an evangelism blog and even in the title of the blog it mentions that it is about evangelism with an edge and a sense of humor.

    Also interesting that non-believers on the blog are pushing the theory of evolution as “fact” more religiously than many christians I know will talk about their faith in God.
    To Nohm: The Jesus you claimed to have known spoke truth – I encourage you to read again through the Gospel of John with an open mind and heart. My prayer for you and other non-believers on this blog is that God would open your eyes so you would see, open your ears so you would hear, and open your hearts so you could believe.

    Until you come to that place of realization that mere chance did not bring about this wonderful creation (no matter how many fancy theories with big words you come up with) That yes there IS a Creator, and that He does care about His creation. That sin is real. Heaven and Hell are real.
    And that the Lord Jesus Christ is indeed not just a fictional story in some old book – but that He spoke truth. Until you get to that point… you will be blogging away completely missing the mark and one day it will be too late as you will come face to face with your Creator and have to give an account for everything you have ever said, done, or even thought.
    It’s my prayer that the reason why so many are on Steve’s blog or on Ray’s blog is not just a fascination for us fundies – but that God is speaking to your conscience (as He did to mine 4 years ago) and you would be saved. Somehow I find that hard to believe however but then again with God all things are possible.

  29. I was referring to the fact of saying people have no lives and comment on here…although you try to word it differently you said..”Do any of you people have families? With kids? Me thinks not. I’m glad that i’m able to provide you with quality weekend entertainment though.” You’re making assumptions people have no lives because they write on here.

  30. Dennis, evolution is fact. We’re not pushing it religiously: we invite you to look at the evidence, but you won’t seriously do it on account of it shattering your worldview.

    I’ve read Genesis, and nothing in there changes the bones we’ve dug up. It just claims that X happened. That’s it. Something blatantly contradicted and refuted by the world around us. Nothing to back up the assertions.

  31. Dennis wrote:

    Also interesting that non-believers on the blog are pushing the theory of evolution as “fact”…

    Dennis, there is the fact of evolution (no scare quotes are needed) and there is the theory of evolution. Theories explain facts.

    more religiously than many christians I know will talk about their faith in God.

    1. I don’t think that’s true at all.

    2. What does that say about the way “many christians [you] know will talk about their faith in God”?

    3. It’s my opinion that you’re comparing apples to oranges here, but no matter.

    Dennis, as soon as people such as yourself and Steve and Ray stop talking about evolution or start to learn about the claims of evolution (and you don’t have to accept them), then you’ll see people shut up about it. As long as you guys are spreading misinformation, we’re going to comment on it.

    To Nohm: The Jesus you claimed to have known spoke truth

    Technically, I don’t claim to have ever known Jesus. Obviously, if I thought Jesus was risen and real I wouldn’t have ever left the faith.

    But this is just an assertion on your part, the same as if a Muslim told me that “Mohammed spoke truth.” I have to have a way to ascertain whether a claim is true or not. I cannot accept the claim simply because you said it.

    If I told you I would give you a million dollars if you would simply give me $10,000 first, would you believe me? What process would you use to determine the likelihood that I was being honest or deceitful? Would you simply accept my claim without asking any further questions? Why or why not?

    I encourage you to read again through the Gospel of John with an open mind and heart.

    1. Okay, sure.

    2. But, been there, done that.

    3. Are you implying that my mind and heart weren’t open the first 20 or so times I read it?

    My prayer for you and other non-believers on this blog is that God would open your eyes so you would see, open your ears so you would hear, and open your hearts so you could believe.

    I understand where you’re coming from with this comment, and I appreciate it.

    Until you come to that place of realization that mere chance…

    Uh oh. Dennis, who said anything about “mere chance”? Evolution is definitely not “mere chance”. You’re making a straw-man out of a false dichotomy.

    …did not bring about this wonderful creation

    Whoa whoa whoa. Hold on there. By calling it a “creation”, you’re rigging the game. Creations require creators. Since there appears to be disagreement about the existence of a creator, it’s a bit unfair to label it a “creation” when talking with someone who disagrees.

    (no matter how many fancy theories with big words you come up with)

    Okay, so this part confuses me. I’m sure, Dennis, that in your line of work there are terms, phrases, and so on that are not necessarily understood by people outside of your profession. Are those “big words”? Are they “fancy”? Did you just “come up with” them?

    I’m guessing the answer is “no” to those questions.

    I’m also confused because, when I don’t understand something (like a “big word” or “fancy theory”), I… wait for it… LOOK IT UP.

    Let me make that point abundantly clear.

    When I don’t understand something, I LOOK IT UP. What prevents you from doing the same?

    That yes there IS a Creator,

    Unsupported assertion. Same as if a Muslim told me the same thing about Allah.

    and that He does care about His creation.

    Unsupported assertion. Same as if a Muslim told me the same thing about Allah.

    That sin is real.

    Unsupported assertion. Same as if a Muslim told me that you were sinning by making Isa (aka Jesus) partners with Allah.

    Heaven and Hell are real.

    Unsupported assertion.

    Look, Dennis: I can say all of a number of unsupported assertions, but it’s useless unless I BACK THEM UP.

    Do you have evidence to back up your assertions? If so, I’m definitely listening.

  32. Steve’s the ref in this debate? Just be sure to call the plays fair. =)

  33. Hi Nohm

    Thank you for your response and I will try and address all your points best I can anyway – and better yet I have been praying that God would speak through me to you. After all it’s not really me that needs to convince you of anything, especially not in the realm of the intellect where I am sure you can run laps around me. It would be the job of the Holy Spirit to bring conviction of sin, which should lead to repentance, leading to faith and trust in Jesus Christ.
    You say: “theories explain facts” I would say: theories try to explain facts. I say “try” because as we both know theories do change and some actually get discarded as if they never existed. I hate to jump into the evolution debate and I know nobody argues that changes do occur within a species which is pretty much proven during recorded history. Micro Evolution is not being disputed. However I do not agree in one species becoming another species all together which I believe the theory of evolution tries to teach. Which is Macro-Evolution. The fossil record in my opinion is sorely lacking in REAL proof of transitional species nor do I believe that mutations and adaptation would lead to what we see today. What we do see in the fossil record is an explosion of life at a sudden time in history which would back up creation vs. evolution. Also the theory of evolution really falls to pieces when it tries to claim we came from a primordial soup where the magic ingredient time somehow led to mutations and adaptions that caused a long chain of events ultimately leading up to tada: mankind. And the picture in the text books of the little monkey becoming a bigger monkey walking more and more upright? Are you serious? I am sorrry but again everything else we see in observable nature does the opposite of what the theory of evolution claims… mutations usually lead to death not advanced life or enhanced features which somehow get passed along to offspring for even further mutations and more random advancement.
    So to me in what I know to date comparing evolution vs. creation by far creation makes much more sense…. “in the beginning God….”
    Sorry for my assertion that you claimed to have known Jesus. I understand you were a “Christian” at one point – but I do know that many professing Christians do NOT know Jesus – so I give you that one it was a wrong assertion on my part. Also you are correct that you should not accept my claim that Jesus spoke truth. That’s why I asked if you would read the Gospel of John again. It was Jesus who made the claim: “I am the way the truth and the life – no man comes to the Father but by me” Jesus made many other claims so that’s really what is at stake. Do not believe the claims Dennis makes, but do try and find out what claims Jesus makes. You ask if I would believe you that you are going to give me a million dollars if I gave you 10,000 first? Would I accept your claim without asking any further questions? The obvious answer is that no I wouldn’t believe your claim and probably wouldn’t even bother to ask anymore questions because it sounds like one of those Nigerian money scams. This is where we get to talk about FAITH – it is faith in the word of God – in His promises that leads us to conclude that what Jesus said is Truth and that His claims are true. Jesus backed up His claims by predicting his death on that bloody cross, and by rising again 3 days later. Also I find the word of God backs up its claims through prophesy (like reading the Psalms describing exactly what would happen to Jesus being crucified, etc) Also as every born again believer can testify you move from the realm of believing in God to knowing God. So to answer your question about your mind and heart not being open when you read the Gospel of John the fist 20 times is exactly right. Spiritually you are blind and deaf to the word of God. I can see your honestly trying to figure things out intelectually but I can also see that your biased in your view (as I know I am)
    I know I need to wrap this up. It’s getting a bit long winded…
    With reference to chance I meant that most non-believers don’t like to think of an intelligent being designing the universe which then means random chance / luck / whatever you call it caused some matter which came from nowhere to implode and then explode into everything we see today. In other words – not design – but chance led to everything we know today.
    Lastly fancy theories and big words is my personal observation when dealing in the realm of science and things it tries to explain. It makes me wonder why the words get so fancy and long and you need a dictionary just to look up the meaning behind a word. It just seems like a big smoke screen because the theory is lacking in reality but it sure does sound good. Whereas the bible pretty much says that God will confound the wisdom of the wise and use the foolish things of the world. You know why? That’s so HE gets the glory. None of us can boast. Also it’s God who does the saving – He did it on the cross 2,000 years ago.
    I have no problem looking things up – and you’re right it would be great for good discussions that both parties know what the other is talking about. Like when it comes to theories of evolution, etc.
    The “unsupported assertions” weren’t mine. These assertions are made by God in His word. As I finish this my eye just fell on 1 Corintians – you may want to read there yourself the first 2 chapters.
    Like this powerful verse: 1 Cor 1:18 – “For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; and the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”
    It goes on to say that God was pleased through the foolishness of what was being preached to save those who believed. I would say that kind of hits it on the head no? God bless you Nohm – again I keep praying that you (and others out there) keep searching and find that truth!

  34. Oh boy, let’s tackle this in chunks.

    You say: “theories explain facts” I would say: theories try to explain facts. I say “try” because as we both know theories do change and some actually get discarded as if they never existed.

    I’d actually challenge you to show me a scientific theory that got completely discarded. Theories are the result of rigorous peer review, not mere guesses. Our understanding of theories do change over time, and evolution is no exception. Good science recognizes errors and corrects them. Unless religion, which asserts infallibility and rejects reality.

    Micro Evolution is not being disputed. However I do not agree in one species becoming another species all together which I believe the theory of evolution tries to teach. Which is Macro-Evolution.

    There is no such distinction as micro and macro evolution, that’s just something you guys came up with because easily observed reality demanded it. Look at a picture of you as a baby. Then find a picture of you a year later. Same kid, but maybe with more hair or a little larger. Small changes, right? Now find a picture of you as an adult. MAJOR changes. You could probably convince people the baby and adult aren’t the same person. What you are telling me is that the accumulation of small changes cannot add up to larger changes over time. Yet, after a number of decades, you probably don’t look like a baby, do you?

    The fossil record in my opinion is sorely lacking in REAL proof of transitional species nor do I believe that mutations and adaptation would lead to what we see today. What we do see in the fossil record is an explosion of life at a sudden time in history which would back up creation vs. evolution.

    Well, good thing opinions aren’t what we go by. We have numerous fossils of one species slowly becoming another. The record is not perfect, naturally, but you can see the progression from what we do have. Again, going back to your growth as a person: you’re never in a weird state of half-child/half-man. You slowly transition into adulthood. You yourself are a transitional form between your parents and your offspring.

    An explosion of life doesn’t say anything about creation. If God created just one living thing, is it not longer a creation?

    Also the theory of evolution really falls to pieces when it tries to claim we came from a primordial soup where the magic ingredient time somehow led to mutations and adaptions that caused a long chain of events ultimately leading up to tada: mankind.

    Uh, no. Man is not the “ultimate” anything. Evolution is an ongoing process and we could easily end up extinct or another species at some distant point. It’s also not just time, but the conditions of early Earth coupled with time. Yes, Dennis, some things take time. Do you assume baking is magic now? Do you consider construction companies to be wizards?

    And the picture in the text books of the little monkey becoming a bigger monkey walking more and more upright? Are you serious?

    Don’t you believe that a magic being created a man from sand? Just because something is strange does not make it untrue. Also, that illustration is not a scientific one: there were species that branched off from us. Many of them did not survive.

    Also, we evolved from apes. Not monkeys.

    To be continued in Part II…

  35. …continued from Part I…

    I am sorrry but again everything else we see in observable nature does the opposite of what the theory of evolution claims… mutations usually lead to death not advanced life or enhanced features which somehow get passed along to offspring for even further mutations and more random advancement.

    Uh no, what we see in observable nature is that mutations run the full gamut of implications. Some are beneficial, some are harmful and others do nothing. But, a change in environment can turn a harmful mutation into a beneficial one. Say you were born without eyes (a simple example). Terrible, right? But, your environment just so happens to be the habitat of a nasty breed of parasites that draw their nutrients from the hosts’ eyes. Suddenly, your mutation has a surprising benefit to your survival!

    So to me in what I know to date comparing evolution vs. creation by far creation makes much more sense…. “in the beginning God….”

    That’s great. But reality disagrees with you and doesn’t care all that much if it makes sense to you.

    Jesus backed up His claims by predicting his death on that bloody cross, and by rising again 3 days later.

    No, it says in an old book he did. We have no evidence that a man died and came back to life three days later.

    With reference to chance I meant that most non-believers don’t like to think of an intelligent being designing the universe which then means random chance / luck / whatever you call it caused some matter which came from nowhere to implode and then explode into everything we see today. In other words – not design – but chance led to everything we know today.

    It’s not really chance: our species was the best equipped to handle our environments. You can repeat our evolution over and over and we’d always be the result. If you don’t like that reasoning, well, what? So chance is why we’re here. The fact you don’t like that wouldn’t change reality.

    Lastly fancy theories and big words is my personal observation when dealing in the realm of science and things it tries to explain. It makes me wonder why the words get so fancy and long and you need a dictionary just to look up the meaning behind a word. It just seems like a big smoke screen because the theory is lacking in reality but it sure does sound good.

    Because you are lazy and afraid to actually learn about the real workings of our world. The language in science has to be precise, so it gets technical. If it were a smokescreen why would these words be in a dictionary? I guess those crafty scientists assumed every creationist on Earth would be too lazy too look them up!

    I have no problem looking things up – and you’re right it would be great for good discussions that both parties know what the other is talking about. Like when it comes to theories of evolution, etc.

    You just said that you hate big words. Quit lying: you have no interest in doing the research.

    The “unsupported assertions” weren’t mine. These assertions are made by God in His word.

    Okay, then God’s assertions are unsupported. That changes nothing.

    Like this powerful verse: 1 Cor 1:18 – “For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; and the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”

    Which means…nothing to me, because the Bible has already been proven to be of very dubious accuracy. Yes, many religions will demonize outsiders to keep you nice and indoctrinated. Nothing new.

  36. “However I do not agree in one species becoming another species all together which I believe the theory of evolution tries to teach.”

    Well – you have something in common with biologists. They also don’t think that one species becomes another species altogether. But they also know that evolution doesn’t say one species turns into another. Although dogs are descended from gray wolves, the wolf species didn’t become the dog species. Speciation is when micro evolution goes on to such an extent that populations can no longer be considered the same species. So, while modern cats are descended from a common ancestor, tigers and cougars are different species.

    “And the picture in the text books of the little monkey becoming a bigger monkey walking more and more upright?”

    Okay – which evolution text books have you actually seen this in and how was it used?* Or have you only been told that it’s used in textbooks, but have never actually verified it. While it’s iconic, it’s not evolution. Biologists have railed against this image for decades. There is no ‘progression’ to evolution. One species doesn’t turn into another species. If you’re going to make a complaint of evolution, please make sure it’s a valid one.

    “Lastly fancy theories and big words is my personal observation when dealing in the realm of science and things it tries to explain. It makes me wonder why the words get so fancy and long and you need a dictionary just to look up the meaning behind a word.”

    Words get so fancy and long because we need a way to impart complex information succinctly. But it’s not just unfamiliar words that are a problem; confusing common usage of words for scientific usage of words is also a common problem. ‘Theory’ and ‘species’ are two that come to mind.

    *(And no, the Time-Life books aren’t textbooks. Even so, the idea of ‘progress’, of monkeys turning into men, was never intended by the original illustrator nor the author.)

    xxx

    “For it is written: I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; and the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”

    I know the feeling. I wanted to do that too, after trying to help my daughter with Physics.

  37. Wow..”sorry Steve that is my younger brother?” Sorry for what… writting my opinions? What are you appologizing for? Steve created this site for a reason…he’s a big boy, he can take care of himself. Although he always avoids answering anything logical like yourself. And the more i read the more i realize how you have no answers and only quotes from other peoples writings. I can take quotes from other books…like science books i suppose and paste them all here to try and prove you wrong and what not…but i speak from my own heart. Seems like somebody took yours and replaced it with fear and a blindfold.

  38. Davy – if you read back at my message I didn’t apologize for you.
    Your a big boy too and are free to your opinions and are welcome to post whatever you like.
    The message of salvation – the message of the Gospel is not made up and doesn’t come from MY heart or Steve’s heart or any other Christians heart. So when you talk to another christian guess what? They will quote the bible to you also. The bible backs up our experience. In the beginning before the bible it was a spoken message and the Gospel message has been the same from beginnging to now. So to say we just quote some book is not entirely true. The quotes show what is going on to those that are spiritually blind like you are. From my perspective you have the blindfold on and it’s only God that will be able to remove it. I pray He does. Glad to see you posting though and having a conversation about this stuff. Keep searching for the truth and maybe actually try reading the bible for yourself – and if you are not open to read it – ask yourself honestly why you won’t?? I think it is you that are scared of the truth and I say that in love. When God started getting hold of my heart it wasn’t like an instant decision. For me it felt like a due date in court and there was a sense of a presence just behind me that I had to turn around (spiritually) and face. Well I finally did that on Jan 4th 2006 – and hit my knees realizing at that moment God is real and that I had been cursing Him, and also running from Him. But the reason I even share all this is that at that moment God became real in my life and not just a fictional character in an old book. When I talk about God or quote the bible it is still speaking from the heart. Just like any other believer still speaks from the heart – their blindfolds have been removed and they can freely and passionately share with you their testimony of when God came into their life. Davy – people in other countries are getting killed – worst tortured – for their faith in Christ. Do you think they are scared? Do you think that they have a heart of fear and a blindfold on? I don’t think so. That’s the power of God to change lives. Trust me I know exactly where you are at even though I might disagree with your intolerance towards christianity or the way you feel justified in how you talk about me. Like some recent incorrect accusations you made which I won’t get into on here. As a matter of fact – would love to continue talking privately and not in a public blog about this. The reason I responded is that others that might be in a similar situation with unsaved family members might feel encouraged – and also to ask them to pray. Love you bro.

  39. Dennis, does the Bible say anything about proper formatting? Because that is really annoying to read all blocked up in one giant chunk.

  40. Just to keep it short…people are dying and getting tortured for other religious beliefs too…not just faith in christ. Thats why i always wonder why you think your belief is the right one….with the billions of people in this world and so many different religious beliefs…what makes you think you’re right? What if i told you Jesus visited my last night? He told me that what you are doing is wrong….the way you are preaching his word is wrong. It is my job to tell you so…to preach to you the proper way. Would you believe me? Im guessing not… So look at it from my perspective for once…and from the perspective you used to have Dennis before you fell to your knees and gave up, when you had a open mind.

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