The Stupid Family

103 CommentsSalt

I’m teaching my daughters to get used to feeling stupid.

During a recent visit to the Griffith Observatory we engaged in a game called “Find the lie.” As we experienced the many wonderful displays revealing God’s creation in the cosmos we also read some of the theories that pass for “science.”

“Girls,” I said excitedly, as we looked at the Supernova display, “find the lie!”

science

They replied, “Hydrogen and helium are the two most abundant elements. They were made in the Big Bang more than 13 billion years ago.”

“Very good!!” I affirmed. “Read the other lie, too.”

“Our bodies are made of elements that came from stars that died as supernovae.”

A commenter to Facebook was exactly right when he acknowledged this indisputable truth:

“Well, we know that the science world lies, because of the utter foolishness of the theory of evolution (which the science world takes as fact). And you know how it goes. Once you lie, you have to keep on lying to keep the lie up. Here’s a clear example of this. What’s interesting is the brashness of it all. Notice that it just states all these things as fact, not theory, but of course the Big Bang and everything surrounding it are theories. ‘Tis the arrogance of man.”

A mother with a teenaged daughter overheard our conversations and whispered something. The daughter gave a knowing smile toward the stupid family.

Game on.

“Making fun of born-again Christians is like hunting
dairy cows with a high powered rifle and scope.”
—P.J. O’Rourke (From Ray Comfort’s Facebook page.)

Comments (103)

    • Schmader

      Reply

      The Griffith Observatory is rife with falsehoods, lies and deceptions created by Satan and his demonic minions to lead astray people already blinded by the ungodly rhetoric taught in the public school system.

      When I look up at the night sky I am reminded that God created everything in it.

      Steve, I applaud your effort to teach your children the TRUTH!

  2. Richard Chavarria

    Reply

    I love this game. Find the lie. Man is always making adjustments to the evolutionary/ big bang worldview. Now, the universe is 13 billion years old. Wait just a little bit and it will exceed this number. For given enough time and science man will come up with a theory.

    I love science and as a Christian I have God’s word that tells me that tomorrow will be like today. The evolutionists does not have this assurance as he says things are ever changing. If for example, things are evolving was true, then how could Newton’s experiment with the feather and the rock (gravity) have the same results today as it did hundreds of years ago.

    God sustains things in a steady state. God has provided us the faculties to interpret the things around us. It is called the pre conditions for intelligibility. Check out Mike Riddle’s talk on Astronomy very compiling argument against evolution. You’ll find it in the web site Answers in Genesis. God is absolutely kind, he is absolutely moral, he is absolutely powerful, he is absolutely everywhere at once. Jesus was fully man and fully God at the same time.

    If you put limits on God then you have a very small God.

    There is no where we can go to hide from God. Even in hell.

    You won’t be able to make fun of Christians in hell.

    Repent and believe the Gospel and save your reasoning for this life.

    • rufustfirefly

      Reply

      “I love science and as a Christian I have God’s word that tells me that tomorrow will be like today. The evolutionists does not have this assurance as he says things are ever changing. If for example, things are evolving was true, then how could Newton’s experiment with the feather and the rock (gravity) have the same results today as it did hundreds of years ago.”

      I was going to engage you until I read that. There is no use in trying to fight that kind of ignorance. Especially when you revel in your ignorance.

      • Richard Chavarria

        Do you have a scientific argument or are you just voicing your opinion. And using emotional language to secure your position whatever it is. Are you all knowing? Because that would be the only way you could call someone ignorant.

      • BathTub

        Can you Richard? You are making nonsensical statements that are clearly nonsense to belittle the work of men of Christ.

        You are posturing, professing yourself to be wise. For no purpose other than to seek the approval of others like yourself.

        The statement “If for example, things are evolving was true, then how could Newton’s experiment with the feather and the rock (gravity) have the same results today as it did hundreds of years ago.” is 100% gibberish that in no way reflects reality.

        Nothing about the field of physics backs up your claim. And I am willing to bet money that you won’t back it up either.

        As an evangelist you need to decide, am I doing this to to really reach the lost and bring them to know Jesus or am I actually just doing it to get Steve to pat me on the back.

    • Nohm

      Reply

      Hi Richard,

      You wrote: “I love science”

      Except, it appears, when it goes against your religious beliefs.

      You wrote: “The evolutionists does not have this assurance as he says things are ever changing.”

      1. No, that’s not what us “evolutionists” say. If you have a problem with something we say, I’d appreciate it if you make sure it’s something that we actually say, and not something that it appears you made up.

      2. I don’t think you understand what “ever changing”, in the context of evolution means. And that’s why I don’t get why people like yourself and Steve fight against a scientific theory that you appear to feel the need to display to all that you don’t know or understand anything about the theory.

      I seriously just don’t get why you guys would do that. If I had a problem with an idea that other people subscribed to — like Creationism or Intelligent Design, for example — I would study that subject so that when I talked about it nobody could claim that I didn’t give it serious research and consideration.

      Hence my confusion that people like yourself and Steve appear to me to take the exact opposite approach.

      “If for example, things are evolving was true, then how could Newton’s experiment with the feather and the rock (gravity) have the same results today as it did hundreds of years ago.”

      And what the hay does the feather and rock test (i.e., F=ma) have to do with evolution? And by phrasing it the way you did, I question if you understand the feather and the rock test to begin with! For example, what happens when we do the feather and rock test on the moon? Which hits the ground first?

  3. Orsie(Dodie) Carter

    Reply

    Thanks Pastor Steve for bringing to light the truth about the Griffith Park Observatory explanation of the Big Bang Theory lie.

    I use to go there in the 60’s with my science class. My instructor really believed in this lie. I liked looking through that big scope.

    Do they still have it?

    Dodie Carter

  4. vintango2k

    Reply

    Steve I hope that if your kids take any real interest in science (though I doubt it since you seem to be doing a wonderful job handicapping them) they don’t resent you for the damage you’re doing. The reason people ‘face palm’ around you when you make statements like that is not because ‘they bought into the lie’ its because you’re making statements that are contrary to established, testable facts of reality… and you’re pushing that onto your kids. Its a good plan though, if you insulate your kids well enough they may never question you, but be warned, if knowledge begins to creep into their brains when they get older, be prepared for confrontation. But then again if you actually explore these principles and listen to the scientists who discuss them or teach on these subjects it might alter your world view…. tough call for sure.

    • Pamela

      Reply

      What kind of education and experiments have you completed? My dad concluded in college after physics and everything else he took to prepare for engineering that there HAD to be a creator! He just didn’t know that creator personally until many years later. He was an aerospace engineer who worked on the payload team sending those rockets up into space. And GPS; that was one of his projects too.
      You are just part of the crowd willing to join in any thinking that discredits God because you don’t like God’s rules. You are blindly following without any real facts.
      Even my anti-Christian biology teacher had to admit that the big bang theory was just a theory because all of the experiments failed to re-create life. And he so wanted proof of the stupidity of Christianity. FYI there are scientists who are Christians- the two are compatible.

      • Nohm

        I think you missed vintango’s point, Pamela.

        For example, was your dad also a young earth creationist?

        Lastly, because I get annoyed at this silly accusation, if we didn’t like God’s rules, that would mean we acknowledge that God exists. If we acknowledge that God exists, that would mean that we probably understand what omniscience and omnipotent mean in relation to God. If we understand that, then why would our opinion about God’s rules be relevant in any way whatsoever?

        Or do you think we’re so unbelievably stupid to think that we’d somehow get away with avoiding the rules of an omniscient and omnipotent being? That our attempts at “discrediting” Him would mean anything at all?

        How can you claim “You are just part of the crowd willing to join in any thinking that discredits God because you don’t like God’s rules.” with any sort of a straight face?

        Lastly (sigh), you wrote: “Even my anti-Christian biology teacher had to admit that the big bang theory was just a theory because all of the experiments failed to re-create life.”

        You’re killing me here, Pamela.

        Calling a theory “just a theory” (yeesh) and thinking that the Big Bang model has anything to do directly with abiogenesis (yow). Killing me. Kill. Ing. Me.

        Just for my own curiosity, what do you mean when you say “just a theory”? “Just a theory” compared to WHAT, exactly?

        “And he so wanted proof of the stupidity of Christianity.”

        I’m having a hard time believing you although, if it was true, he’d certainly see the willful ignorance (which is not the same as stupidity, I admit) of Christians here.

      • vintango2k

        Ouch! Pamela, my head hurts when you try and cram things that I don’t think in there and claim that I think them… I think someone else who posts on this blog has a word for it. Lets break this down.

        What kind of education and experiments have you completed?

        College education, and science class experiments for one, currently I’m working with a speech pathologist and occasionally a neuro-scientist to develop software to help kids and young adults with social problems, though I’m not a researcher myself. I’ve conversed with plenty of scientists who came to the exact opposite conclusion that your Dad reached in college.

        “He was an aerospace engineer who worked on the payload team sending those rockets up into space. And GPS; that was one of his projects too.”

        That’s cool, is your Dad a young earth creationist? Does he think that relativity points to a young earth or an old one? If he thinks its a young one, what evidence in reality can he point to to demonstrate this? I’m all ears if he has some.

        “You are just part of the crowd willing to join in any thinking that discredits God because you don’t like God’s rules. You are blindly following without any real facts.”

        Hmmmm, I could if I wanted to begin to make up things about you Pamela, but seeing as I don’t know anything about you, I’ll try not to leap to conclusions about how you think and what your desires are, I know you think you have that authority and insight but its artificial, the sooner you realize that the better off you’ll be.

        “Even my anti-Christian biology teacher had to admit that the big bang theory was just a theory because all of the experiments failed to re-create life. ”

        Forgive me, (its in your nature right?) but this post seems a little contrived. If your biology teacher knew anything about science, he wouldn’t have said anything like that. Hint… because its a line used by creationists… not scientists… real scientists don’t say things like that because they know what theories really are. But he’s a bio teacher so I don’t know if the same thing would apply… though why he’d be commenting on the Big Bang when he’s a bio teacher is anybody’s guess.

        “And he so wanted proof of the stupidity of Christianity. FYI there are scientists who are Christians- the two are compatible.”

        “The stupidity of Christianity” as Steve put it in his post, “Get used to being the stupid family” is usually directly related to creationism, snake handling, and people literally nailing themselves to crosses. Its face palming fanaticism that you don’t have to go very far to observe that can provide all the proof your teacher was looking for. And yes you can have Christians who are scientists, they tend to either compartmentalize their personal beliefs with their scientific ethics or the field they’re studying in doesn’t clash with whatever belief they happen to hold.

      • Nohm

        Hi Vintango,

        You wrote: “I think someone else who posts on this blog has a word for it.”

        That’s me, and the term is “failed mind-reading”.

      • Nohm

        Hi Pamela,

        You wrote: “FYI there are scientists who are Christians- the two are compatible.”

        I don’t think anyone is debating that point.

        My complaint, at least, is that Steve and Richard are fighting against a scientific theory where they don’t appear to understand what its claims are, and especially how the scientists got to those claims.

      • Nohm

        Hi Pamela,

        I wrote: “Just for my own curiosity, what do you mean when you say “just a theory”? “Just a theory” compared to WHAT, exactly?”

        Please don’t answer with either “a fact” or “a law”, because that will definitely kill me.

  6. BathTub

    Reply

    If you were sincere, you would ask, “How do they know that information to be true?” then ask the people there about it.

  7. Garrett

    Reply

    I’m actually majoring in biology, so it’s a real shame to see you encouraging ignorance like that.

    • Richard Chavarria

      Reply

      I hope that folks don’t think that the Miller experiment is true science.

      Check out this biology article:

      http://www.evidencepress.com/bcell4.htm

      After reading this short article, please tell me how life began spontaneously without the intelligence of the creator God.

      If your so smart than why even study biology since you know everything already to the point that you can call someone ignorant. What I’m thinking is that you are objecting and reacting emotionally to someone who is putting down your belief system. As Steve’s article is clearly insinuating.

      • Garrett

        There is currently no theory for the origins of life, but there are hypotheses. This is entry-level biology. Shoot, it’s entry level science that not everything is explained. What would even the point of science be if it was? The difference is that biologists are examining the evidence and looking for explanations whereas creationists just claim a divine being did it and call it a day. That’s not science.

        I’m studying biology because there’s a lot I don’t know. The problem is that Steve is displaying an ignorance of very basic biology. He could easily enroll in a community college biology course and have his questions answered. Evolution is 101 material.

      • vintango2k

        Richard. Your statement is flawed.

        “After reading this short article, please tell me how life began spontaneously without the intelligence of the creator God”

        You’re working from an assumed conclusion. Let me reward it so it like this.

        “After reading this short article, please tell me how life began spontaneously without the power of Greyskull or the triforce.”

        You can’t pose a conclusion that hasn’t been proven to be true and expect people to meet whatever criteria you set. Otherwise people have no reason to take you seriously.

        The exact time/date origin of self replicating molecules is unknown to us currently, we can test and learn more about early Earth conditions and origin of life in order to develop a model of the process. The ultimate test will be to create self replicating molecules under lab conditions which is the inevitable goal of scientists studying this field.

      • Nohm

        Hi Richard,

        You wrote: “After reading this short article, please tell me how life began spontaneously without the intelligence of the creator God.”

        My answer is, “I don’t know.”

        Just for my own curiosity, what’s your reaction to that answer?

  8. ScottMaugh

    Reply

    I encourage my children to ask questions, and to look for answers. I try my best to let them piece things together, and come to their own conclusions.

    Let’s reverse the scenario, what response would be given to an atheist family playing “Find the Lie” in a creation museum?

      • vintango2k

        Steve, there’s a reason why most Creation museums are these little ma and pa style buildings that are usually out in the middle of no where… you follow the track record of success, and the money. There is no successful scientific advancement when it comes to creationism… it bares no fruit. Your smart phone, your web cam, the internet, global communication, modern medicine; those are advancements based off of real science, you benefit from them, companies make billions off of them, countries and people grow stronger as a result.

        Tell me what is worse, genesis as allegory and accepting the truth of the reality you live in, or genesis as literal and putting your fingers in your ears?

      • vintango2k

        Or perhaps wearing your ignorance like a prideful badge of honor?

      • vintango2k

        I’m curious though, without knowing the origins of the various principles of science, who discovered these things, the work they put in, examining their work. You assume that its the influence of the world view rather then the individual, at what point do you assume, “the God of this world” blinded them and provided them with false conclusions that have led to real world progress? For example, are the principles of relativity at work in the GPS in your smart phone (I assume you have one) being obscured in some way?

      • BathTub

        vintango2k, given that Steve just posted this a second time on facebook “According to some people I have a really stupid family.” Then yes Steve is totally using this as a badge of honour.

      • Steve Sanchez

        Actually, it’s to expose more readers to the article. I find if I post at different times I reach different segments of the audience.

      • Nohm

        Hi Steve,

        You wrote: “According to the atheist, everything would be lies in the creation museum.”

        Not necessarily. According to this atheist (i.e., me), Ken Ham and the people who put the Creation Museum together could honestly believe everything they claim in that museum.

        It’s silliness. It’s failed mind-reading. But it’s not necessarily lies.

        That’s according to this atheist.

      • vintango2k

        I’d call it… $$$.

        For hucksters like Ham, he can’t change his mind, he’s too committed. He goes on speaking tours, writes books, does a website. His bread and butter, his entire social structure is defined by his position. Even if he changed his mind he couldn’t back out, he’d lose his flock and his financial security.

        I mean Steve, let me ask, if you suddenly actually started listening to detractors on this website, if you learned the processes behind these sciences, and you learned to think rationally and questioned your beliefs… and suddenly became an atheist of all things. You’d be out of a job right? I mean you and your family would lose your health care and your social support structure, no? I mean take Tedd Haggard for instance, he was a rock star until he got caught, he had no reason to change any of his stances on gay rights while he had a job and a system of support. It wasn’t till he lost all of that that he actually changed his mind.

      • Steve Sanchez

        There is no way I would change my mind about God. I know Him. It would be like denying my children, only a lot worse. And of course I would lose my job. Do you really think that’s why I believe in the One Who created you? And the supernovae?

      • vintango2k

        I don’t know why you find it hard to believe in super novas Steve, we understand the principle of nuclear fusion… we’ve observed these phenomenon before by peering into deep space, and we know that denser elements form the higher the energy state, hence why we’ve observed the denser elements that get shot off from our own sun. And you may think you know God, but unless the God you believe in has conversed with you and shown you that the universe is 6000 years old then really you’re just going off what your fellow man has interpreted from an ancient book that stands at variance with observed, testable reality. You’re choosing things that are demonstrably wrong. Now I don’t know the philosophy or teachings of the church you pastor at, but I’ll go out on a limb and say that you’re of a denomination that tows the creationist line? If not than you could come out in support of evolution and science the way plenty of other denominations of Christianity already do.

      • vintango2k

        My mistake, the post you made sounded a little ambiguous the way you structured. The point I’m making is that there’s nothing unique about the elements that make up our body Steve, Carbon, zinc, iron, oxygen, Hydrogen… same elements as the kind being shot out by the stars… exact same. The hotter the explosion of energy, the denser and more unstable the elements (past iron anyways)… its basic physics … it works, testable, observable, and applicable in our daily lives. Its real, and if you believe in God, a result of God. Its true, it can be proven, all you have to do is LEARN more about it. If you continue to cling to ignorance, shunning actually learning about things like this, you choose not only to deny reality to yourself but then proceed to misinform others… wouldn’t that make you a false prophet?

      • BathTub

        “Actually, it’s to expose more readers to the article. I find if I post at different times I reach different segments of the audience.”

        Steve, it’s facebook, not live TV your post doesn’t dissappear after a set time.

        And how many months back on your facebook page do you think I have to go to find you posting the same article twice in a few hours under different names?

    • Garrett

      Reply

      Such an activity would be a waste of time better spent on actually educating one’s children. It’s not like I’d also drag my children to a, I dunno, a museum of Islamic history and play “find the lie there” either.

      • Nohm

        It also assumes that I wouldn’t give people the benefit of the doubt.

        For example, there’s a big difference between:

        Well, these people honestly believe this, even though scientific investigations tell us otherwise

        and

        These people are liars

  9. Nohm

    Reply

    Steve, do you think it’s possible that the people who wrote that sign aren’t lying, but honestly believe those statements to be true due to experiments, tests, and examination?

    Or do you think that they know that it’s untrue, and are intentionally trying to deceive people?

    Or some other answer?

    Lastly, your post appears to imply that the statement “Hydrogen and helium are the two most abundant elements.” is also a lie. Do you believe that statement to be a lie? Why, or why not?

    • Steve Sanchez

      Reply

      Nohm,

      Steve, do you think it’s possible that the people who wrote that sign aren’t lying, but honestly believe those statements to be true due to experiments, tests, and examination? Yes.

      Or do you think that they know that it’s untrue, and are intentionally trying to deceive people? No; they have bought into the lie as well. It
      is the world system.

      Or some other answer? No other answer. They have been blinded, too, by the god of this world.

      Lastly, your post appears to imply that the statement “Hydrogen and helium are the two most abundant elements.” is also a lie. Do you believe that statement to be a lie? Why, or why not? No, that’s correct. It’s the billions of years thing. They state that as fact. Since God created everything the way Genesis said, it all happened then.

      • vintango2k

        Did it ever occur to you Steve, that the reason the ‘world system’ developed the way it did, is because the way reality works and the way the bible works are incapable? You can not simply ‘make up’ physics and have them work in any sort of meaningful or useful way and expect to be taken seriously or even tapped to work in… any… field.

        All you have to do is study the history of discoveries within the various scientific fields to get an understanding of how these principles were discovered.

      • Nohm

        Hi Steve,

        Thank you for your reply.

        You say that it’s possible that the people who wrote the sign were not lying, but may honestly believe those statements to be true due to experiments, tests, and examination. Good.

        But then you say they have bought into the lie as well.

        So here’s my question, because it seems to me that there’s a contradiction there.

        If it’s possible that those people arrived at the text on the sign due to experiments, tests, an examination, then at what point did they “buy into the lie”?

        At what point in the process did the math start lying to them? Can math lie? How exactly does that work? Does Satan modify their math? Is math part of “the world system”?

        Thank you for your consideration of these questions, as your answer confused me.

      • Steve Sanchez

        I have problems with the billions part. Really? Do they actually know this?

        And the “fact” that “Our bodies are made of elements that came from stars that died as supernovae.”

        C’mon!

      • Nohm

        Hi Steve,

        If possible, I’d still like a response from you on my questions:

        “At what point in the process did the math start lying to them? Can math lie? How exactly does that work? Does Satan modify their math? Is math part of “the world system”?”

        I assume that one detailed response could answer all of them.

        Additionally, you wrote:

        “I have problems with the billions part.”

        Understood.

        “Really?”

        Yes, really.

        “Do they actually know this?”

        Do you ever find yourself asking “A nuclear plant puts out how much energy? Really? Do they actually know this?”

        I doubt you do. But the process is exactly the same.

        I’m thankful that you ask the question, Steve. The next question from you should, in my opinion, be: “How do they know this?”, and examine that.

        It isn’t just a number some people made up. They got to that number through experiments, tests, and MATH.

        For example, let’s say you have a mound of dirt, and need to buy just enough buckets to hold all of the dirt from the mound. You don’t want to buy too few buckets, and you don’t want to buy too many buckets.

        Now, one method you might use is to guess how many buckets you’ll need, but I hope you’ll agree that it’s very likely (especially if you’ve never had to do this before) that you wouldn’t be right.

        But, I hope you’ll again agree, that there is a mathematical way to calculate the size and volume of that mound of dirt. You can also then see what the available volume of each bucket is. Using this, you’d be able to determine exactly how many buckets you would need to buy, right?

        Right.

        So, that’s how they know “billions of years”. They’ve done the math.

        “And the “fact” that “Our bodies are made of elements that came from stars that died as supernovae.””

        Another good question, but before we get into this, let me ask you a few minor questions:

        1. Do you agree that our bodies are made of elements, such as oxygen, carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen and calcium?

        2. Do you agree that stars can die in supernovae?

        3. Do you agree that, when stars die in supernovae, that various elements are scattered drastically as part of the supernova?

        4. What do you think “dust of the ground” (q.v.., Genesis 2:7) is made of?

        I’ll have to wait for your responses to these four questions before I continue.

      • Steve Sanchez

        Nohm,

        I’m not going to answer all your questions. Sorry.

        Suffice it to say: In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

        …then the Lord God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature.

        No billions of years separating the events. No particles from supernovae (though we apparently contain the same elements). The key phrase is “Our bodies are made of elements that came from….”

      • Nohm

        Hi Steve,

        Fair enough. I just wanted to explain to how they got to “billions of years”.

        Would you please at least answer one question of mine?

        It is: “At what point in the process did the math start lying to them?”

        That’s what I’m most confused about. You say that they’ve bought into the lie, yet they got to “billions of years”, as I’ve just shown above, through the same math you would use for the mound of dirt.

        So where did the math lie to them?

      • Steve Sanchez

        I don’t know when, but if there is a discrepancy between God and man, I will choose the former every time…even if I can’t explain to your satisfaction.

        When did people start believing the lie that it’s okay to kill a child in the womb?

        Or that there is no God?

      • vintango2k

        “The people of Samaria must bear their guilt,
        because they have rebelled against their God.
        They will fall by the sword;
        their little ones will be dashed to the ground,
        their pregnant women ripped open.”

        Apparently they went to the Bible for that Steve.

        And people have believed in Gods and no Gods for as long as people have been around, there are multiple examples of this in history. If you learn more about history you would know this.

      • Nohm

        Hi Steve,

        You wrote: “if there is a discrepancy between God and man, I will choose the former every time…even if I can’t explain to your satisfaction.”

        Believe it or not, but I fully understand that you feel this way. I was just confused regarding your claim that it was a “lie”, and your claim that “they have bought into the lie as well”, because it’s not an issue of people just accepting what others say (although, considering where you’re coming from, I understand why you’d assume others think that way), but an issue of people actually doing the work themselves to determine whether or not a claim is correct.

        “When did people start believing the lie that it’s okay to kill a child in the womb?”

        Probably Genesis 6:17.

        “Or that there is no God?”

        Probably when they tried to commune with Him and received nothing but silence. Or looked around and saw thousands of people, all claiming to commune with Him, yet claiming that He said drastically different things to them.

      • Nohm

        Hi Steve,

        “I understand why you don’t believe. I’m sorry.”

        For the record, there are a LOT of reasons as to why I don’t believe.

        If you think some of my comments are pretty long, a comment on all of the reasons why I don’t believe would be FAR too long.

      • Nohm

        Hi Steve,

        You wrote: “Give me the top five!

        Maybe I’ll respond biblically in a post.”

        Sure. I’ll try to write a comment by tonight or tomorrow where I try to list the top five.

  10. Brian T.

    Reply

    Very good Steve. It’s not hard at all to find the HUGE flaws in evolution. i mean it takes ALOT of faith to swollow the lie that everything came from nothing! Lol!!! It takes a real brain child to believe that one. And that we came from a water eroded rock! Rofl!!!!! Then that “life” came from a super heated star explosion, let’s conduct 99 science experiments and see if life comes from something being blown up….. or if the intense pressures and heat kills. Like I said, it takes alot of faith to remain part of the evolution church.

    • vintango2k

      Reply

      That a boy Brian, keep on tithing! The chuch of ignorance needs your cash money, now! =)

    • vintango2k

      Reply

      But I’m curious, what HUGE flaw are you referring to in particular? I await your answer with bated breath…

    • Nohm

      Reply

      Hi Brian,

      You wrote: “It’s not hard at all to find the HUGE flaws in evolution.”

      What do you think is the HUGEST flaw in the theory of evolution? Please make sure you’re talking about the actual theory, and not the imagined theory that many creationists fight against (e.g., “Where’s the Crocoduck?”).

      “i mean it takes ALOT of faith to swollow the lie that everything came from nothing!”

      I guess you could be correct, if that was an actual claim of the actual theory, instead of the imagined theory that many creationists fight against. Wouldn’t you agree that, to best fight against a concept, one should first gain some sort of understanding of the concept?

      “Lol!!! It takes a real brain child to believe that one.”

      To believe that claim, or to believe that the theory of evolution actually claims that?

      “And that we came from a water eroded rock! Rofl!!!!!”

      I agree. This gross distortions of the actual claims of the theory are silly. By the way, the origin of life is not dealt with in the theory of evolution; what you’re talking about is abiogenesis. Evolution only deals with life once it exists.

      “Then that “life” came from a super heated star explosion, let’s conduct 99 science experiments and see if life comes from something being blown up…..”

      Again, that’s not exactly the claims, so I can understand that you would find it to be silly, just like the crocoduck. I would be curious what your reaction would be if you actually checked out the actual theory, and not this distorted version.

      “or if the intense pressures and heat kills.”

      Wha??

      “Like I said, it takes alot of faith to remain part of the evolution church.”

      There is no “evolution church”. There are simply people like myself, who understand the scientific method, who understand peer review, and who understand MATH.

      MATH.

  11. Matt Ross

    Reply

    Hydrogen and Helium ARE the most abundant elements in the universe. The Big Bang is probably the best explanation for the creation of our universe, considering the way the universe is expanding and we are going to collide with the Andromeda galaxy in 4 billion years or so. Also how many times do we need to go over Genesis? Chapters 1-12 are under the genre of “Myth” so may not be 100% scientifically true. In fact when has the bible ever been a scientific book? Also the universe is most likely 13.7 Billion years old, there is no possible way for those first six days to have an Earth-based perspective simply because for the first two of those six days there was no Earth.
    If you are interested on some math to how this all works, I have some great links
    Science is GOOD, why else would God give us this curious mind if He did not intend for us to search out and find truth among His creation!

    • Richard Chavarria

      Reply

      Matt, I assume you are not a Christian. I don’t know why? How do you know that hydrogen and helium are the most abundant elements in the universe? This statement of yours appears to be a truth claim.

      If the universe is expanding as you say it is, how do you know what you think you know?

      Fact is you can’t know anything until you know God, who knows everything. Speaking to the myth claim about Genesis. If you don’t think you have ever sinned then you are fooling yourself. Because Genesis affirms God’s Holiness and his plan for salvation and man’s sinfulness and the need for a Savior, Christ Jesus of Nazareth.

      And lastly, I didn’t say science is bad. I love science because it reveals who God is. That’s why you will be without excuse.

      • Nohm

        Hi Richard,

        You wrote: “Matt, I assume you are not a Christian. I don’t know why? How do you know that hydrogen and helium are the most abundant elements in the universe?”

        Because MATH. Math is awesome; you should check it out sometime.

        “If the universe is expanding as you say it is, how do you know what you think you know?”

        Because MATH.

        “Fact is you can’t know anything until you know God, who knows everything.”

        Your conclusion (i.e., you can’t know anything until you know God) does not follow from your premise (i.e., God knows everything).

        “I love science”

        Unless, as I mentioned before, it goes against your religious beliefs. People used to think the sun orbited the Earth, due to their religious beliefs. In fact, they still exist. What’s your opinion about a geocentric solar system, much less a geocentric universe?

      • vintango2k

        No Richard… you love the rewards you reap from scientific progress. Like the selfish kid that gobbles up cookies without giving any real thought to the steps it took to make that delicious treat. Its alright though, you don’t have to learn every detail of the process, just respect the process and the work that goes into it that makes your life a little more pleasant.

        When that fails, the money you give is a decent substitute instead, but when the baker uses macadamia in those cookies, don’t insist that there’s no macadamia nuts in them. They’ll just look at you like you’re crazy…. or stupid.

      • Matt Ross

        Brother, I’ve been a believer for a few years now, but I HATED the church because growing up, I felt as if I had to pick either Christ or Science. For some reason no one believes them to be compatible, but what I have found through hours of study, and going to college (believe whatever you want, I’m educated) is that they ARE COMPATIBLE. Science compliments the Bible, and vice versa. If you are going to make bold statements like “Hydrogen and Helium” are NOT the most abundant elements, do a little research first.
        Shalom

      • vintango2k

        http://www.howstuffworks.com/question224.htm

        That’s how you get the millions part Steve, beyond the millions requires a different test. If it takes a star’s light millions of years to reach the Earth for us to perceive it, how can the universe be young? If this is, in fact, your major hang up? How do you rectify this information?

  12. Richard Chavarria

    Reply

    Bath, you missed the point of my argument entirely. The point is that science is possible because we (Christians) can expect that the past will be like the future.

    Again, to know everything in physics is impossible for you to know. That is way it’s called a science. In order to call something gibberish…you have to know all of the physical laws of nature. You don’t.

    You then, I assume believe in evolution. Entirely faith based. As such, how in your worldview is science of physics possible in an evolutionary worldview. You can’t expect tomorrow to be like today. That would be something that the Christian would believe. Because we have God’s assurance as revealed in his word. That he will maintain things as he created them. Although, God is under no obligation to do so.

    Bath, why do you contend with the Almighty? What has he done to you that you argue against him. He’s given you everything to come to your senses by the things that were made and by his written revelation.

    You know God exists and you are suppressing that knowledge. Please, you will be without excuse. So repent today. You know your heart beats about 100,000 times a day. One day it will be it’s last. I pray that you will be ready to meet him.

    • vintango2k

      Reply

      Oh good grief… Richard are you really Sye Ten or Eric Hovind under that handle? Do you honestly believe that science can only happen because of Christianity? The Muslims were actually some of the first scientists after the fall of the Roman Empire… wouldn’t it be “more correct” to attribute scientific revelation to Allah.

      And furthermore… the assumption that the rules of today applying to tomorrow is always tentative. If the rules change tomorrow then we go back to the drawing board to figure out why they changed and for what reason. Its the search for the Why and How… and discovering the truth of it despite our preconceptions is what science is about… and why its pretty much the opposite of religion… and also explains why its scares poor Steve so. =)

    • BathTub

      Reply

      Richard, in attempting to take the high road you made the following statement.

      ” The evolutionists does not have this assurance as he says things are ever changing. If for example, things are evolving was true, then how could Newton’s experiment with the feather and the rock (gravity) have the same results today as it did hundreds of years ago.

      I am ready right now to put my money where my mouth is and put up $50 dollars (I’ll paypal it to Steve) that you will not back up with statement with a factual science based argument.

      I will contend that you will not put your money where you mouth is because you know that what you said is false.

    • Nohm

      Reply

      Hi Richard,

      You wrote: “The point is that science is possible because we (Christians) can expect that the past will be like the future.”

      As can we, mathematically.

      “Again, to know everything in physics is impossible for you to know. ”

      Says the person who doesn’t know anything about physics. Serious question, Richard: have you ever taken a physics class?

      “ In order to call something gibberish…you have to know all of the physical laws of nature.”

      No, in order to call something gibberish, you have to consider the source of the text, and whether or not they show themselves to be knowledgeable about that subject, and whether or not their knowledge matches the MATH.

      Yours doesn’t.

      “You then, I assume believe in evolution.”

      We accept the scientific method, peer review process, and MATH that got us to the theory of evolution. It’s not a belief.

      “Entirely faith based.”

      Says the person who has never shown to have an understanding of theory, much less the math involved.

      “As such, how in your worldview is science of physics possible in an evolutionary worldview.”

      And what exactly does physics have to do with biology?

      “You can’t expect tomorrow to be like today.”

      Depends what you mean.

      “That would be something that the Christian would believe.”

      Something tells me that you, Richard, don’t expect tomorrow to be exactly like today. Today is Monday. Is tomorrow also going to be Monday?

      So, what do you mean?

      “Because we have God’s assurance as revealed in his word. That he will maintain things as he created them. Although, God is under no obligation to do so.”

      So, how much of an assurance is that, then?

      “Bath, why do you contend with the Almighty?”

      I’m betting that BathTub, like myself, is contending against people like yourself, and not “the Almighty”. We believe that the former exists, but not the latter.

      “What has he done to you that you argue against him.”

      Since I don’t believe in Him, my answer would be “nothing”. We’re not arguing against Him, we’re talking with you.

      “You know God exists and you are suppressing that knowledge.”

      No matter how many times you repeat it, it still makes absolutely no sense. We’re not so incredibly stupid that we think we can outwit an omniscient and omnipotent being.

  13. Michelle Clara

    Reply

    Steve pat Richard on the back?!?! Hahaha YES!!! Because THAT’s what Richard was hoping for this whole time. Richard a deaf man cannot hear you no matter how loud you scream. Some of us need more “warnings/talking to/chances” whatever it may be that individual need than others….either way everyone will have the opportunity to have KNOWN so come that day no one will have excuse it will be what it will be sadly. My hope is that we see the big neon sign before its too late because sometimes it is bright and neon can’t miss it in your face God is practically shouting and we will still come up with ifand buts

  14. Richard Chavarria

    Reply

    There are no facts to support evolution. This science exhibit is lying and depicts a clear evolutionary attempt to deceive and indoctrinate the populace. I’m shocked to see that my taxes are going to put forth another faith based religion. So, it seems that money is being splashed on those who put forth a claim without evidence. No new information can be added to matter.

    Natural selection and mutations do not add knew information to DNA.

    • Nohm

      Reply

      Hi Richard,

      You wrote: “There are no facts to support evolution.”

      And you make that claim based on what, exactly? Your extensive research into biology?

      No.

      As for facts that support evolution, how about ERVs?

      “This science exhibit is lying”

      Again I ask: you make this claim based on what, exactly? Because you’ve done the math?

      No.

      “and depicts a clear evolutionary attempt”

      The claim of billions of years on that sign has nothing to do with biology; it has to do with cosmology, a completely different area.

      “to deceive and indoctrinate the populace.”

      Just for my own curiosity, what is it that you think they have to gain by deceiving and indoctrinating the populace? To what end?

      “I’m shocked to see that my taxes are going to put forth another faith based religion.”

      Except it’s neither faith-based nor is it a religion. The same process that was used to discover the ability to create the computer you’re using is the same process that was used to discover the theory of evolution.

      Plus, MATH. And you haven’t done the math. I doubt you’ve even attempted to do the math.

      So when I’ve done the math, and someone who appears to be innumerate complains about the math, without ever having attempted to do the math, it’s a bit frustrating.

      “So, it seems that money is being splashed on those who put forth a claim without evidence.”

      1. Splashed? Go to the richest area you live in, and tell me how many of those mansions are owned by evolutionary biologists.

      Splashed? Hardly. They have to beg for every dollar.

      2. The claim is supported by mountains of evidence, none of which (it appears) you’ve ever even tried to learn, even if just to show why it’s wrong.

      Again I point out, if I was fighting against an idea, I would research and learn as much about that idea from those who accepted and supported that idea, so that people would take me seriously when I pointed out any problems with that idea.

      That’s why I find your method to be so bizarre.

      “No new information can be added to matter.”

      Because you’ve done the math to determine this?

      No.

      You make this claim based on what, exactly? It certainly isn’t any research you’ve done on this issue.

      “Natural selection and mutations do not add knew information to DNA.”

      Same thing here again. You keep making claims about things it appears you don’t know anything about, and you certainly appear to have never even attempted to do the math to support your claims.

      Look, unlike yourself, my method is not to simply read things that agree with me, put no effort into verifying them, and then repeat the talking points. I accept the theory of evolution NOT because some scientists say I should, but because I’ve done the MATH.

    • Steve L.

      Reply

      Richard:
      You’ve made your point with these EXPERTS! Your absolutely correct; you know it and I know it. Nothing else need be said!! Go grab a hot chocolate & have a nice day!

      • vintango2k

        Some one has to stand up to these experts! If they keep chatting people might learn and/or begin to think about these things rather than just jumping to their preconceived notions! You can argue back if you want, we welcome it, any evidence you want to bring to the table is welcome… it might give Steve a chance to make another post about why he doesn’t have to provide proof for anything he believes in. They tried similar things in Salem… and an awful lot of witches were killed.

  15. Michelle Clara

    Reply

    Richard I agree with Steve L. God is just and as a just God not one “expert” will be able to get off on a “technicality” … No matter how Bill Gates you may think you are you won’t be able to Apple or I-“talk” your way out of that one man!

  16. rufustfirefly

    Reply

    Steve wrote: “When did people start believing the lie that it’s okay to kill a child in the womb?”

    Steve, if God killed every pregnant woman on the planet (again) tomorrow, what would you do and/or say?

      • rufustfirefly

        You’ve given yourself license to do anything, Steve. You simply have to say that it is God’s will. So, answer this question honestly, and I won’t bother you again;

        if your God told you to slaughter children, of all ages, to slaughter pregnant women, would you do it?

        Please don’t give me the “He wouldn’t tell me to do that” line; just answer; thank you.

      • Steve Sanchez

        Well, he wouldn’t tell me to do that. There is no exception. That’s why there is so much craziness in the Christian world: people think they “hear” God. He speaks in his Word, the bible. The Old Testament is given to us as an example. The New Testament is putting our Christian lives into practice.

        God will not tell me to do something that violates His Word, the Bible, or would cause me to sin, or break the moral law.

        Sorry.

        You aren’t bothering me, by the way.

      • Nohm

        Hi Steve,

        You wrote: “Well, he wouldn’t tell me to do that.”

        But you believe that He told King Saul to do that to the Amalekites in 1 Samuel 15:3, right?

        So, to change Rufus’ question, if God told you to slaughter children and pregnant women of an enemy of Christians, just like how God told Saul to slaughter the children and pregnant women (among other things) of an enemy of the Jews, would you do it?

        (For the record, regardless of your theology, I don’t think you would do it.)

      • Steve Sanchez

        No. But in the OT he spoke directly to his chosen leaders. Audibly. With visions. Saul also was a warrior, a commander. I live in NT times now. He would never, ever tell me to do that. Ever.

      • vintango2k

        “Well, he wouldn’t tell me to do that. There is no exception.”

        Steve, I find it interesting that you put your sense of morality ahead of God. I know the authority of believing to speak for God is strong but honestly the same God who tells people to slaughter pregnant women and the “innocent” children inside their wombs AND then LATER tells you to love your enemy and turn the other cheek apparently is quite capable of telling you to either turn the other cheek… OR… run a sword through a pregnant woman’s belly depending on whatever the whim of that God is… and it would be just no matter what it did.

        Don’t let your mere human sense of morality get in the way of true righteousness… OWN IT… just say, since I believe whatever God does and says is just, if God asked me to run a pregnant woman through the belly with a sword I’d do it. Otherwise you’re claiming your sense of morality is better than God’s.

      • Nohm

        Hi Steve,

        You wrote: “But in the OT he spoke directly to his chosen leaders. Audibly. With visions.”

        Actually, if you remember, in the case of 1 Samuel 15, it was God speaking through the prophet Samuel who was speaking to Saul.

        So, God wasn’t speaking directly to Saul in that case.

    • rufustfirefly

      Reply

      So, Steve Sanchez knows the mind of God, knows what God would or would not do.

      And you may be right; this is NT times and God wouldn’t do it anymore. That still doesn’t make it right when God did it in OT times.

      • rufustfirefly

        Well, Steve, I’m not really judging God, since He doesn’t exist. I’m judging a particular idea of God. And I’m judging you and others who hold that idea.

  17. vintango2k

    Reply

    Alright Steve… the TIME is irrelevant. It doesn’t matter what TIME you live. Lets pretend that you are a Jew under the command of Yaweh and Yaweh has just commanded you to cut the unborn child from the belly of a pregnant mother whom you have captured after taking an enemy city … the sword is in your hand, you are commanded to run her through. Why in the world would you NOT do that if a just, loving God is commanding you to do that?

      • vintango2k

        Short answer. God would never do that unless he does. And you criticize science for inconsistency… I know for a fact you’re fully capable of putting yourself in that situation mentally, Steve, you just don’t want to because you know you’re more moral than that. I just find it amazing that you care so much about abortion and yet flat out refuse to own the morality set down in your Bible just because it happened in the BC before the AD, as if OT God was just very grumpy until he settled down and had a kid…

      • Steve Sanchez

        You would benefit from a solid course on theology. You may have a great scientific mind but your sadly lacking in your understanding of the God of the bible. Oh, I know you will insist that you know enough, but, no, no you don’t. So I will do what Jesus did when the rich, young ruler didn’t fully understand Jesus’ meaning: “He looked at him and loved him.”

        I write this lovingly to you, my friend. God has seen fit to hide his truth from you.

      • vintango2k

        Did plenty of Sunday School Steve, though I must admit they never introduced apologetics or evangelism (both of which I find fascinating) and you can smile and love them but everyone who reads it Steve sees it for what it is. You wouldn’t do it, but you won’t admit it because it would mean putting you at odds with your theology. You also won’t explain it, because you don’t want to examine it, or can’t explain it. God MAY have hidden things from me Steve, but you Steve, as a man, with the power of communication can easily tell me what you would do in that situation. You are a soldier in that passage, and yaweh has ordered you to abort that baby…. who knows maybe that baby is the next Hitler (Taking the baby and raising it Jewish and teaching it to be morally right with Yaweh is just impossible right? Obviously that baby doesn’t have free will and is just destined to do horrible things) what would you do in that OT situation? Obey or disobey?

  18. Bizzle

    Reply

    Steve,

    Once again I will post what I’ve said to you before. If you answer these questions, the atheists here may not like the answers, but you’ve done all you can. You’ve gone the distance, as it were. Then they can’t claim you’re ignoring them, not engaging in a dialogue to understand, etc.

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