Comments (14)

  1. Thomas Moore

    Reply

    Awesome!!! I have always enjoyed Charile Brown’s Christmas Special. This is the best I have seen when it comes to presenting the Gospel. All that is lacking is the Law and it would be perfect! Merry Christmas everybody!!!

  3. vintango2k

    Reply

    Good one nameless, I had a fine Christmas eve mass in my local Catholic church. There were numerous pagan Christmas trees set up along the stage and the sermon was on praying to Saint Joseph, I found it most interesting.

  4. Nameless Cynic

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    Ah, vintango2k, you don’t understand the evangelist mindset. As evil papists and idolators, the Catholics are already going to hell. Can’t you see that?

  5. Thomas Moore

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    I didn’t get a chance earlier to look at your link Nameless and I would just like to make a few comments. It is true that around the 400’s that the beginning Catholic Church began to latch on to “some” pagan practices (really the mistletoe is the only pagan element that I can think of off the top of my head that is pagan connected to Christmas. Any other legitimate practices? Key word is “legitimate“). But we must remember that Christianity had been around much longer, and that from the very beginning Christianity was unique in it’s system of belief. Christianity didn’t copy pagan beliefs. Pagan beliefs either copy Christianity (Mithra) or those that were around before Christianity are a far cry from being similar (Greek gods). Also I did a little bit of research on when Jesus was actually born and it is very interesting. Jesus was either conceived or born six months after John the Baptist. John the Baptist was either conceived or born in the month of June. This means that Jesus was conceived in the month of December and thus born in September or Jesus was in fact born in December, six months after John the Baptist (Luke 1-2:1-20). It is interesting to note that for many hundreds of years (before Christmas was officially celebrated on December 25th) scholars within the church believed that Jesus was actually born on December 25th. Its just that the church for many hundreds of years was not interested in celebrating the birth of Jesus, until the Catholic Church realized that they could be a witness to the pagans in the month of December because of their (the pagans) celebrations (January 6th was the origin big day for the church around this time. This was the celebration of Epiphany. This day commemorates the time that Jesus was baptized in the river Jordon by John the Baptist reveling that Jesus was and is the God-man (Matthew 3:13-17; Mark 1:9-11; Luke 3:21-22). It has also been celebrated as the day that the three Magi arrived to worship the two year old Jesus in Bethlehem [Matthew 2:1-12]). It has only been in modern times that this placement of Jesus’ birth, December 25th, has been called into question. Just something to think about. God bless!

  6. vintango2k

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    Again Thomas can you please site your sources for the information you post? I really want to know. I’ll grant you the Mithra/Christ relationship is possible because its unclear, historically, when the practice of Mithraism began, but most historians place it around the 1st to 4th century mark which is right before or at the same time Christianity began. And I’ve looked Thomas but I can’t find a birth month for John the Baptist, what is your source for this information?

  7. Thomas Moore

    Reply

  8. Thomas Moore

    Reply

  9. Nohm

    Reply

    Thomas, do you ever use any secular sources? To be clear, I’m not talking about “anti-Christian”; I’m talking about secular sources that have no dog in this fight.

    I note that every source you use has a reason to want a particular answer to be correct.

  10. Thomas Moore

    Reply

    Ah Nohm the problem I see with you’re question is that there is ultimately going to be no source, that as you say, “. . . .[has] no dog in this fight.” Everyone has chosen a side ultimately. Jesus spoke about this at Matthew 12:30; Luke 11:23. But if you have sources that fit what you are speaking about please I would like to view them to see what you are talking about.

    Commenting on what Nohm said, “I note that every source you use has a reason to want a particular answer to be correct.”

    It still amazes me after all the good evidence’s, good source’s, good fact’s, good reason’s, good argument’s (what I mean by good here is the most reasonable information) and ultimately the Holy Spirit, it still is not “good” enough. These Scriptures come to mind:

    “I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?”—John 3:11-12 (NIV)

    “The man [or woman] without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.”—1 Cor. 2:14 (NIV)

    “The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.”—2 Cor. 4:4 (NIV)

    May you repent (turn from the sin of breaking the Ten Commandments) and put your trust in Jesus Christ to save you. God bless you Nohm and Happy New Year!

  11. Nohm

    Reply

    Thomas wrote: “Ah Nohm the problem I see with you’re question is that there is ultimately going to be no source, that as you say, “. . . .[has] no dog in this fight.” Everyone has chosen a side ultimately.”

    I completely and utterly disagree. I, for example, have no dog in this fight. I have not chosen a side.

    You have simply not supported your claims.

    Therefore, until you do, I chose what I consider the reasonable solution… I wait until you do, and don’t believe until then.

    For the same reason you would not believe if I told you I had an invisible dragon in my garage.

    Thomas wrote: “It still amazes me after all the good evidence’s, good source’s, good fact’s, good reason’s, good argument’s (what I mean by good here is the most reasonable information) and ultimately the Holy Spirit, it still is not “good” enough.”

    And Thomas, a Muslim could say the same thing to you. So why aren’t you a Muslim yet? They’ve given you all the good evidences, good sources, good facts, good reasons, good arguments, and it still is not good enough for you to be a Muslim.

    Now let me quote from the Quran what it says about non-believers (that includes you, Thomas):

    …

    Nah. I hope you get my point.

    If that’s not persuasive to you, then why would you think it’s persuasive to me? You have NOT given good sources. You have NOT given good evidences. You have decidedly NOT given good arguments.

    You have given a LOT of logical fallacies.

    You have given a LOT of arguments that assume your conclusion.

    These are major problems, Thomas.

    Think back to what you see as the three (or four? I forget.) evidences that you give out. Can you not see that each one assumes your very own conclusion?

    Lastly, quoting Bible verses that say the equivalent of “People who don’t believe in the Bible are wrong” is just as persuasive to me as if I quoted Quran surahs that say the equivalent of “People who believe in the Quran are wrong.” Please understand that your religion is simply one of many, and if your arguments are the exact same as a Muslim’s, then there’s no way for me to tell which of you is correct.

    Therefore, I assume neither of you are.

  12. Thomas Moore

    Reply

    Ok Nohm I can see that we will have to agree to disagree at this point. Though I do not want to say that the debate is over. Just one quick question, what is your fascination and/or reasoning for using Islam all the time for examples? I think I know the answer, but I would still like to hear what you have to say. (Maybe I have asked you this question before?)

    P.S.—Nohm I respectfully disagree with what you said here:

    “I completely and utterly disagree. I, for example, have no dog in this fight. I have not chosen a side.”

    You have chosen the side of being against Christianity because you believe that that evidence and reason does not support Christianity. This is made clear by you’re blogs that you write Nohm. Then you get on Pastor Steve’s blog and you make the attempted at creating enough doubt in Pastor Steve and other believers who get on the blog to stop them from what they are doing, ultimately the preaching the gospel. You believe you are right and someone like me is completely wrong and you want those who are believing Christianity as the Truth to let go of that belief (that won’t happen because Christianity is the Truth). At its core it is a demonic attack by the enemy, and the enemy satan is using you, Nohm. I know you do not want to here it and that you will not agree, but there comes a point where the truth must be said no matter how hard it may sound.

    P.S.S.—Please if you have any sources that have “no dog in this fight” in connection to Christianity and paganism I would like to read them.

    God bless!

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