Atheist Tuesday: A Special Message from Charles Spurgeon

Jan 4, 2011Steve Sanchez59 CommentsAtheist Tuesday

As I was reading my devotional, “Morning and Evening,” by Charles Spurgeon on New Year’s Eve before bedtime, I couldn’t help thinking that these words, written 150 years ago, are still applicable to the unbelieving mind.

Please read and take heed in this New Year.

“The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.” – Jeremiah 8:20

Not saved! Dear reader, is this your mournful plight? Warned of the judgment to come, bidden to escape for your life, and yet at this moment not saved! You know the way of salvation, you read it in the Bible, you hear it from the pulpit, it is explained to you by friends, and yet you neglect it, and therefore you are not saved. You will be without excuse when the Lord shall judge the quick and dead. The Holy Spirit has given more or less of blessing upon the word which has been preached in your hearing, and times of refreshing have come from the divine presence, and yet you are without Christ. All these hopeful seasons have come and gone–your summer and your harvest have past–and yet you
are not saved. Years have followed one another into eternity, and your last year will soon be here: youth has gone, manhood is going, and yet you are not saved.

Let me ask you–will you ever be saved? Is there any likelihood of it?

Already the most favorable seasons have left you unsaved; will other occasions alter your condition? Every means have failed with you–the best of means, used perseveringly and with the utmost affection–what more can be done for you? Affliction and prosperity have alike failed to impress you; tears and prayers and sermons have been wasted on your barren heart. Are not the probabilities dead against your ever being saved? Is it not more than likely that you will abide as you are till death forever bars the door of hope?

Do you recoil from that idea? Yet it is a most reasonable one: He who is not washed in so many waters will in all probability go filthy to his end. The convenient time never has come, why should it ever come? It is logical to fear that it never will arrive, and that like Felix, you will find no convenient season till you are in hell. Think carefully about hell and of the dreadful probability that you will soon be cast into it!

Reader, suppose you should die unsaved, no words can picture your doom. Write out your dreadful predicament in tears and blood, talk of it with groans and gnashing of teeth: You will be punished with everlasting destruction from the glory of the Lord, and from the glory of his power. Allow my words to startle you into serious thought. O be wise, be wise in time, and before another year begins, believe in Jesus, who is able to save to the uttermost.

Consecrate these last hours to lonely thought, and if deep repentance be bred in you, it will be well; and if it leads to a humble faith in Jesus, it will be best of all. See to it that this year does not pass away, and you still unforgiven. Do not let the new year’s midnight bells sound upon a joyless spirit! Now, now, NOW believe, and live.

ESCAPE FOR THY LIFE;
LOOK NOT BEHIND THEE,
NEITHER STAY THOU
IN THE PLAIN;
ESCAPE TO THE MOUNTAIN,
LEST THOU BE CONSUMED.

Get this wonderful devotional online here.

Comments (59)

Garrett
January 4, 2011
Reply
Why would I be fearful?
You’ve failed to successfully argue your position. There is no God, Heaven or Hell to fear.
Nohm
January 4, 2011
Reply
Two questions:
1. In “It is logical to fear that it never will arrive, and that like Felix, you will find no convenient season till you are in hell. “, who is “Felix”?
2. If I copied-and-pasted a “sermon” from an Islamic Imam about how, without taking the Shahada, you are surely going to Hell… would that be persuasive to you?
Okay, one more question… if it wouldn’t be persuasive to you, then why would you think that the projection by Spurgeon above would be at all persuasive to someone like me?
- Steve Sanchez
  January 4, 2011
  Reply
  Felix from the book of Acts. You surely must’ve read that book when you were a Christian, Nohm.
  You can cut and paste any old sermon you want, from Islam, Buddhism, etc., but none of those faiths make claims that God became a man, died for sin and rose again. None.
  Big differences.
  Oh. This wasn’t a sermon; it’s a devotional.
vintango2k
January 4, 2011
Reply
I’m still reeling from the Dahmer post, my poor brain is rattled. Did we successfully guess whether or not Dahmer’s in heaven or hell? Did his last words damn him to hell worse then his past actions did? I dunno maybe I’m missing that debate or something. Hope you’re having a good year, Steve. Did you get any science books for Christmas?
- Steve Sanchez
  January 4, 2011
  Reply
  No science books. But I’m happy to report that I will be reading the entire Bible again this year.
  Yes, thanks to God’s grace and the faith he gave to Dahmer, I’m looking forward to seeing him in Heaven.
  And hopefully, you too. Happy New year! (By the way, do you know why it’s 2011 and not some other number?)
Nohm
January 4, 2011
Reply
“Felix from the book of Acts.”
Okay, I looked it up and saw that he was discussed in Acts 23-25. I just had trouble remembering him because, let’s be honest, “Felix” is not a standard “biblical” name. Well, to me, at least.
“You can cut and paste any old sermon you want, from Islam, Buddhism, etc., but none of those faiths make claims that God became a man, died for sin and rose again. None.
Big differences.”
Why do you see that as important, Steve? I could claim:
You can cut and paste any old sermon you want, from Christianity, Buddhism, etc., but none of those faiths make claims that God spoke to a man who could not read or write, yet wrote the most perfect book of all, and split the moon, and rode off to Jennah on a flying steed. None.
Big differences.
…
I mean, the guy SPLIT THE MOON, Steve!!
So, what’s so special about God becoming man? And what’s so special about a God rising from the death? Osiris, anyone?
And how did Jesus die for sin? Sin still exists. Are you suggesting that, before Jesus, *no one* ever went to Heaven?
It’s as if we had this conversation:
Kit: “Sesame Street is the best TV program ever, no debate.”
Steve: “Huh. I have other shows that I like better. Why is Sesame Street the best?”
Kit: “Because no other show has Big Bird. None. Big difference.”
Nohm
January 4, 2011
Reply
Q: “By the way, do you know why it’s 2011 and not some other number?”
A1: Rome.
A2: It’s not 2011 everywhere on the planet, Steve. It wasn’t even New Year last weekend everywhere on the planet.
Here’s a fun little question… do you believe that Jesus was born in 0 AD or 1 AD?
vintango2k
January 4, 2011
Reply
So suicide is a forgivable sin? Interesting. Oh well. I’m a little unclear about something though since you re-read the Bible Steve, what’s your opinion on the two deaths of Judas in the Bible?
- Steve Sanchez
  January 4, 2011
  Reply
  2 deaths? That’s a new one. Never heard about that.
Thomas Moore
January 4, 2011
Reply
Great post Pastor Steve! I went through Spurgeon’s “Morning and Evening” devotional about three years ago. Right now I am going through “My Utmost for His Highest” by Oswald Chambers. This will be my third year going through Chambers devotional. I plan to go through “Morning and Evening” again some day, Lord willing. As a side note Chambers got saved under the ministry of Spurgeon. You never know who God will bring in you’re path to lead them to Jesus and use them for the glory of God! Praise God!!!
vintango2k
January 4, 2011
Reply
And I’m going to have to side with Nohm on this one and enhance. The reason its 2011 Steve is because of Pope Gregory, hence the Gregorian Calandar. He did one of those crazy Papal decrees based on prayer that some of you Christians don’t believe in or call heresy and adopted this calendar system as a reform of the Roman calendar system.
Lee
January 4, 2011
Reply
Yes, thanks to God’s grace and the faith he gave to Dahmer, I’m looking forward to seeing him in Heaven.
One of the biggest things I don’t understand about Heaven is whether or not there is free will.
If there is no free will, then what’s the point of our “mortal lives?”
If there is free will, then what’s going to stop Dahmer from raping and dismembering the children in Heaven?
Either way, wouldn’t it have just been easier for God to create Adam and Eve inside of Heaven where (I assume you’re going to say) there is some sort of force that keeps people from sinning?
Nohm
January 4, 2011
Reply
Steve wrote: “2 deaths? That’s a new one. Never heard about that.”
Compare Matthew 27:5 and Acts 1:18.
Matthew 27:5 says “And he [Judas] cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.”
Acts 1:18 says “Now this man [Judas] purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.”
Now, the way this is usually “apologeticized” is by saying all of those things happened. He cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, then bought the field with that money (the explanations as to how differs among apologists), then hung himself, and then the rope broke and he fell forward and… uh… that last part. Gross.
Now, if you’re not dedicated to the idea that these two passages CANNOT be in error, and MUST be in harmony, then it seems like a contradiction.
I don’t see how both of those verses could be true at the same time.
But if the rising saints from graves mentioned in one gospel and not in the other three don’t bother your brain, I doubt this issue will either. Just as a Muslim will never be able to see an error in the Quran.
Nohm
January 4, 2011
Reply
Also, I’ll ask again: what big differences?
Why should I think “a God became a man and then died and then was arisen from the grave” as a more special thing than what other religions claim about their god(s) and prophets?
vintango2k
January 4, 2011
Reply
@ Lee
That’s a question there is no answer to. The Bible never says what will happen to you once you are in heaven. All that we know is that we’ll live forever with God. Beyond that we don’t know what Heaven will look like or be like, your guess is as good as mine.
@ Steve
The Gospel of Matthew and Acts seem to vary when discussing how Judas died. In Matthew he returns the silver to the church and then goes and hangs himself. Easy to explain, not too terribly vague. In Acts, he uses the rewards of inequity (I’m assuming the silver?) And then buys a field. In this field he falls headlong (very fast) and that his stomach burst and his intestines fell out. Pretty gruesome. These passages confuse me really. Did he return the silver or keep it? Did he hang himself or die of a fall? Some say that the fall was caused by the hanging, but I’m a little curious why in Acts they didn’t state that he hanged himself like they did in Matthew, if that was the case then.
Nameless Cynic
January 5, 2011
Reply
Yes, Steve. Depending on which of the book of the Bible you refer to, Judas either hanged himself (Matthew 27:3-10), or bought a field, tripped on a stump, and burst like an overfed tick (Acts 1:16-19).
(And actually, there’s also the Gospel of Judas, which says that the other disciples stoned him to death – I’m not sure how you feel about the various apocrypha and such)
Gee, Steve, apparently you DO need to read your Bible again.
And incidentally, although Nohm pointed out the obvious flaw in little rant:
“You can cut and paste any old sermon you want, from Islam, Buddhism, etc., but none of those faiths make claims that God became a man, died for sin and rose again. None.”
But for that matter, you’re also ignoring the fact that the myths about Jesus all fall into the parameters of a “mystery cult,” which were flourishing around the Year Zero. Elements are openly stolen from earlier gods (Dionysus, Mithras and Osiris are all commonly cited), and the scholar Kersey Graves found and wrote about “The World’s Sixteen Crucified Saviors.”
So, no, I’m afraid the story had already been told before. (And since, really.)
Steve Sanchez
January 5, 2011
Reply
Here’s my answer to the “two deaths of Judas”:
Compare Matthew 27:5 and Acts 1:18.
Matthew 27:5 says “And he [Judas] cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.”
Acts 1:18 says “Now this man [Judas] purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.”
Now, the way this is usually “apologeticized” is by saying all of those things happened. He cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, then bought the field with that money (the explanations as to how differs among apologists), then hung himself, and then the rope broke and he fell forward and… uh… that last part. Gross.
Two viewpoints, different emphases.
You see a car crash from the North, I see it from the south, I’m on a roof, you’re looking out the window of the first floor. We’ll have overlapping facts, but different emphases.
No problem for me.
Nohm
January 5, 2011
Reply
Steve, I don’t think your car crash analogy is accurate, in that we have two different explanations for where the money (for betraying Jesus) went, and two different explanations for how he died.
But you know the real difference between the stories of Judas’ death and your car crash example?
If either of us wrote about the car crash, no one would claim that we were guided by an all-knowing and all-seeing God.
It’s okay that you and I might have differing viewpoints. But we’re not talking about two authors with differing viewpoints with Judas… we’re talking about THE HOLY BIBLE; supposedly THE WORD OF GOD.
Big difference.
Nameless Cynic
January 5, 2011
Reply
Nohm beat me to it.
But further than that, if you go to the four Gospels, each one has Jesus saying different things before he died. (In fact, all four have differing details on the trip to the tomb, as well.)
Any man’s last words are supposed to be important. Wouldn’t you think that the final utterance of the Son of Man would be something that his closest followers paid attention to?
- Steve Sanchez
  January 5, 2011
  Reply
  Oh, c’mon you guys. That’s silly. You’re pullin’ my leg, right.
  Do a little more research on the Synoptic Gospels and John, report back what you learn here, and then we’ll discuss this further.
  You are all great kidders! 🙂
Nohm
January 5, 2011
Reply
Steve wrote: “and then we’ll discuss this further”
And you’re a great kidder also! 😀
Nohm
January 5, 2011
Reply
Steve, what do the Synoptic Gospels and John have to do with my point of the difference between two humans describing an event and two contradictory accounts of an event in a book created by AN ALL-SEEING GOD?
Nohm
January 5, 2011
Reply
Again, Steve… you ask us to look up the synoptic gospels (Matthew, Mark, and Luke), and the gospel of John. I’ve read them.
You haven’t responded to why there would be differences between the stories when the book that they’re in was created by AN ALL-KNOWING AND ALL-SEEING GOD.
Again, if you want to make the claim that two people can see the same thing different ways, I’ll agree… up to a point. But we’re not simply talking about “two people seeing the same thing with different viewpoints”, because you claim that this is not just a book, and not just a Holy Book, but THE Holy Book written by AN ALL-KNOWING AND ALL-SEEING GOD.
And when we point out these problems, you tell us to look up stuff (something you don’t do regarding scientific claims, even when we ask you to), but don’t explain exactly what we should be looking up that will have us say, “oh, I’m sorry… I was totally wrong there. It makes perfect sense that the most perfect book in all of history would have two contradictory stories about the death of a major character (Judas), and four different stories about the death of THE major character.”
What is it about the synoptic gospels and John that is supposed to clarify all of that for us?
Nohm
January 5, 2011
Reply
Steve, if I asked you what the last words of Jesus were before he died on the cross, what would be your answer?
Steve Sanchez
January 5, 2011
Reply
An all-seeing, all-knowing God would provide the opportunity for you to study for yourself why he gave multiple viewpoints.
Here’s what was said on the cross by Jesus:
“Then Jesus said, ‘Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do.’ And they divided His garments and cast lots. ” (Luke 23:34)
“And Jesus said to him, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.’ ” (Luke 23:43)
“When Jesus therefore saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing by, He said to His mother, ‘Woman, behold your son!’ Then He said to the disciple, ‘Behold your mother!’ And from that hour that disciple took her to his own home.” (John 19:26-27)
“And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, ‘Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?’ which is translated, ‘My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?’ ” (Mark 15:34)
“After this, Jesus, knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, said, ‘I thirst!’ ” (John 19:28)
“So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, ‘It is finished!’ And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit. ” (John 19:30)
“And when Jesus had cried out with a loud voice, He said, ‘Father, into Your hands I commit My spirit.’ Having said this, He breathed His last. ” (Luke 23:46)
Nohm
January 5, 2011
Reply
Hmmm, some wires must have gotten crossed somewhere.
Let me try my question again:
Steve, if I asked you what the last words of Jesus were before he died on the cross, what would be your answer?
To clarify, Steve, I’m talking about his final sentence before dying.
Nohm
January 5, 2011
Reply
Wait, are you suggesting that Jesus, in this exact order:
1. Jesus said “It is finished!”
2. Jesus bowed His head.
3. Jesus gave up His Spirit.
4. Jesus cried out “Father, into Your hands I commit My spirit.”
5. Jesus breathed His last.
Don’t you see a problem with the order of #3 and #4?
Nohm
January 5, 2011
Reply
Steve wrote: “An all-seeing, all-knowing God would provide the opportunity for you to study for yourself why he gave multiple viewpoints.”
Yet, he didn’t seem to do that. What he provided for me was a brain that says, “those events are contradictory”.
Much like the two explanations of Judas’ death.
Again, we’re not talking about two conflicting news reports. We’re talking about two conflicting reports in a book created by AN ALL-KNOWING AND ALL-SEEING GOD.
Big difference.
Nohm
January 5, 2011
Reply
Also, Steve, I’ll ask again because maybe you missed it:
Why should I think “a God became a man and then died and then was arisen from the grave” as a more special thing than what other religions claim about their god(s) and prophets?
Lee
January 5, 2011
Reply
That’s a question there is no answer to. The Bible never says what will happen to you once you are in heaven. All that we know is that we’ll live forever with God. Beyond that we don’t know what Heaven will look like or be like, your guess is as good as mine.
My guess is that it doesn’t exist, and if it does, God will mess around with the people in Heaven the same way he messed around with Adam and Eve in the garden.
vintango2k
January 5, 2011
Reply
One could say Jesus said a lot when he died. He could have said all of those things. But something that bugs me about the Bible is that if Jesus was God as some Christian’s claim then why does his utter lines like ‘My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me?’ has he forsaken himself? Is he referring to himself in the third person. When I was in Sunday school they’d talk about the trinity all the time but I didn’t quite ‘get it’ even back then. If God is all knowing and all seeing and omnipresent and Jesus is him, then why does he talk to himself in the Bible?
Nameless Cynic
January 6, 2011
Reply
And actually, two of those statements are entirely contradictory. According to Mark, we get ‘My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?’ But then, according to Luke, he said ‘Father, into Your hands I commit My spirit.’
What’s that supposed to be about? “You don’t love Me anymore, but here, take My (Your) soul anyway?”
Come on, Steve. He said ALL of that? Then why don’t any of the assorted Gospels share any of the words that the other guys claim to have heard? Wouldn’t at least two of them have heard at least one phrase in common?
What, was there only room for one person near enough to hear Him? Couldn’t one of them have stood by one of the theives’ crosses and listened from there? Both burglers seemed to have no problem hearing Him, right?
vintango2k
January 6, 2011
Reply
@Nohm
Again, its sort of vague. What exactly is ‘gave up his spirit’ does this mean his soul quit struggling for life? Or does this mean he perished. Was this spirit the Holy Spirit? Can he talk after he gave it up? Vague passages are the reason why there are so many different sects of Christianity, when people legitimately argue over the interpretation of passages due to inconsistencies or a lack of detail or context their minds are free to interpret it in whatever way makes the most sense to them. When enough people agree on a passage and enough people disagree. BAM. You have a schism in the faith and you’re Baptist or now you’re Methodist. In the case of Acts and Matthew in regards to Judas, if the Bible is infallible like Steve believes it is. (I mean Genesis is literal truth!) Then why is there any vagueness AT ALL. Acts says he fell fast in a field and his guts burst open, but it doesn’t mention he hanged himself which, in my opinion, is a crucial fact that should have been included. If it had said, ‘He hanged himself and when he did, he fell so fast that his stomach burst (necks break during hangings because the force of the sudden stop in mid drop is concentrated there, but I don’t think there’s been a case of stomach bursting on the initial drop, that usually happens after decay sets in or you strike something.) then there would be no debate at all, people would simply say, Oh yeah that makes sense lets move on.
Steve Sanchez
January 6, 2011
Reply
To make it easier on me, check back in next Tuesday. All you need to know will be given then.
Gosh, I didn’t realize that unbelievers have such a healthy interest in the bible! Good stuff, guys.
Nohm
January 6, 2011
Reply
Vin, I totally agree with what you wrote.
I would further point out that my problem with the two explanations of Judas’ death has never really been about the death scene, but about how he spent the silver.
The two ways that he spent the silver seem far more contradictory to me than the hanging and guts-burst-open descriptions.
Nohm
January 6, 2011
Reply
Steve wrote: “Gosh, I didn’t realize that unbelievers have such a healthy interest in the bible!”
My guess is that at least part of that comes from it being a big reason why a lot of us became non-believers in the first place.
Steve Sanchez
January 6, 2011
Reply
Nohm, et al:
There is no problem here. Do a little further studying and let me know what conclusions you come to in regard to the 30 pieces of silver and him buying a field when he’s dead.
It’s so simple! 🙂
Nohm
January 6, 2011
Reply
Steve, this was hardly the only time I have investigated this issue (i.e., the silver).
I have already stated what I see the problem is.
I have read apologetics (I even referenced them when I first explained the “two deaths” issue… the one that you said you had no idea what we were talking about) about this issue. I find that they try to explain by adding information that is not contained within the Scriptures. And even then I think it’s bunk, and I thought this way when I was a believer. I.e., when I wanted those explanations to make sense.
So I don’t know what to add. I do note that you seem to not have put forward your opinion on this, or answered my question about:
Why should I think “a God became a man and then died and then was arisen from the grave” as a more special thing than what other religions claim about their god(s) and prophets?
- Steve Sanchez
  January 6, 2011
  Reply
  Because you can be saved by believing in this man.
  Big difference.
  The Judas story is easy enough to explain (and this is off the top of my head): Judas returned the money. The religious leaders couldn’t accept blood money so they bought a field and credited Judas with the purchase to get them off the hook.
  I just checked with some old, old, commentators and found that this explanation is correct. Here ya are: http://bible.cc/matthew/27-7.htm
  Good questions!
vintango2k
January 6, 2011
Reply
Yes, the vagueness of him buying a field with the rewards of inequity does leave it wide open to interpretation. But if you think on it a little further, logically, it doesn’t make much sense in Acts. Matthew is fine, he returns the silver and kills himself because he’s guilty. In Acts he buys a field with the rewards of inequity (I guess the silver or maybe money he came into as a result of betraying Jesus, after he returned the silver????) and right afterwards he hangs himself and all that gruesome blood and guts stuff happens. What doesn’t make much sense is why would he buy a field just to hang himself in? If he were going to hang himself then he could have just done it. Why go to the trouble of purchasing land if you’re just going to commit suicide. It makes more sense that he bought the land with his ill gotten gains and then he suffered a terrible fall and his guts were burst open and he died a gruesome death. But if that were the case then Acts directly contradicts Matthew.
I wouldn’t classify myself as an unbeliever, I just have trouble deifying a book and claiming it ‘infallible’ like you do Steve. I also believe the Bible’s suffered from gross mistranslations over the years due to human error, so if it were divinely inspired that original transcript has gotten lost in translation so to speak. Anything that requires the incredible mental gymnastics apologetics go through to justify continuity or explain discrepancies shouldn’t be required from a book that is ‘infallible’ or literal truth.
Its ENTIRELY possible that in some versions of the Bible, Acts could have included the part that Judas hanged himself and he fell so fast his stomach burst, but since its not in ALL versions of the Bible its a perfect example of how the Bible has been mistranslated or altered.
Garrett
January 6, 2011
Reply
Then why didn’t they just let him keep the money? Judas didn’t buy the field if the money was originally the religious leaders’.
Look at what lengths you are going to explain the big holes in this supposedly flawless book of yours. Your explanation does not make any logical sense.
Not to mention your passage still has Judas hanging himself before the field is bought. The writer knows all about the field but not the important death that took place there?
vintango2k
January 6, 2011
Reply
Actually Steve there’s nothing written that justifies this. In fact its a direct contradiction. It says in Matthew that the priests bought the field, but in Acts it says Judas did. You could just imply that there was another priest name Judas and he’s the one that bought the field so to speak, though there’s no evidence for it however. There’s no more elaboration on this, and so its interpretation only and logically, the priests had no reason to buy the field in Judas’ name. Even if they did this, the passage in Acts would still read, “And the priests took the rewards of inequity and in Judas’ name purchased a field.” You honestly don’t believe the Bible is LYING to you and saying that Judas bought the field when you’re trying to imply that it wasn’t him that bought it but it was the priests in his name?
This can all be solved with specifics. The only reason to write a book instead of relying on oral tradition is to keep details consistent and to successfully elaborate on the facts and account without leaving out details or important information. Inconsistent passages like this and even Jesus’ final words are the very reason WHY, as Nohm said, people lose their faith in the Bible if their presupposition is that the Bible is infallible to begin with.
If the facts were more solid and more consistent then there’d be less reason to doubt them, and people would have less reasons to turn away from it. They fall into the mind set that, since this section is contradictory or doesn’t make sense or is weird and vague then why should I believe this section over here? A sort of all or nothing mentality. But it doesn’t have to be that way, there’s plenty of good teachings in the Bible about loving your fellow man and to turn the other cheek. Morality stories help teach us how to be better human beings.
Nohm
January 6, 2011
Reply
Steve wrote: “The religious leaders couldn’t accept blood money so they bought a field and credited Judas with the purchase to get them off the hook.”
Where is this in the Scriptures? Where does this information come from?
Chapter and verse, please.
Or, is this information just made up to try to explain away the contradiction?
Steve wrote: “Because you can be saved by believing in this man.”
And in Islam, you are saved by taking the Shahada.
In Islam, you are forgiven by directly asking God for forgiveness. In fact, in Islam they don’t believe in “the Fall” because they state that Adam asked God for forgiveness for eating the forbidden fruit.
That’s a big difference.
Now, again, what makes Christianity more special than Islam in this? Why is being saved by believing in a man more special than being saved by taking the Shahada?
Ron
January 6, 2011
Reply
Look at what lengths you are going to explain the big holes in this supposedly flawless book of yours. Your explanation does not make any logical sense.
Good point. It shouldn’t take days or weeks to fill in the plot holes of a book that is the literal word of God.
“A Farewell to Arms” is a 300 page book that manages to never contradict itself, and it was written by a petty damned-to-Hell human being.
Don’t you think an all powerful, all knowing, all seeing, all hearing, and all smelling God should be able to write literature at a level that exceeds Ernest Hemingway by an amount so big that my mortal brain cannot even comprehend it?
That’s not what the Bible is. It’s a book that is constantly repeating different versions of the same story. If there is a God, He would be ashamed to have such a shoddily written book associated with His Name.
vintango2k
January 6, 2011
Reply
An interesting article, not related to what we’re talking about currently but its come up before.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110106/ts_nm/us_pope_bigbang
Think you want to follow the Pope’s example Steve?
Steve Sanchez
January 7, 2011
Reply
Nohm wrote: Steve wrote: “The religious leaders couldn’t accept blood money so they bought a field and credited Judas with the purchase to get them off the hook.”
Where is this in the Scriptures? Where does this information come from?
Chapter and verse, please.
Or, is this information just made up to try to explain away the contradiction?
ME: Go to Matthew 27 and read it. From there you can deduce what probably happened and why Judas was credited with buying the field.
Nevertheless, you don’t have the faith to believe. It’s okay with me if you don’t. I’ve done my part. And will continue to do so.
Bizzle
January 7, 2011
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Bravo Vintango! Good find on the article.
Dennis
January 7, 2011
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The bible is not just one book written by one author in one place at one time. You guys are so focused on finding contradictions and/or error in the bible that you miss the message completely. And sorry boys but that message is the same all throughout. Man being separated from God by sin. God has revealed himself in past generations through his prophets – and guess what? They were stoned to death and outcast.
God repeatedly reveals himself to man, and man repeatedly refuses to listen or see.
Nobody is looking for God we have all gone astray. All the arguments I read on this blog make it clear you are NOT looking for God – you are looking for excuses not to believe in God. That is clear by your weak arguments for not believing.
People like Vin – claiming to be Catholic but really not a Catholic either because as far as I know Catholics DO believe the bible and follow it.
As far as I know they believe the divinity of Christ and believe that he died for our sins, also Catholics believe in the trinity. Yet you (Vin) question all those things.
You are making a god that doesn’t exist so you can continue to live as you please with no accountability whatsoever. You have traded the truth for a lie.
Or Nohm discussing on what were Jesus’s exact last words – vs. why was He even on the cross to begin with? You are blinded to the truth. Only when you realize why Jesus had to go to the cross will the rest make sense to you. Praying that God would show that truth to you before it’s too late and you are on the receiving end of the wrath of God, which is promised to all those that reject Him.
Also at church last night we heard a message on the parable of the sower. I suggest you read Mark 4:1-20 It talks about those that receive the seed (God’s word) and some receive with joy and spring up quickly but then die just as quickly because there are no roots.
It’s the good soil that receives the word and produces a crop. What’s “good soil”? It’s a humble and repentant heart – realizing our sin before all mighty God, and realizing that Christ died for us.
We’ll continue to sow the seed and God will do the rest.
Mark 4:11-12: “the secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that, they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding, otherwise they might turn and be forgiven.”
Garrett
January 7, 2011
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Dennis, if I claimed to be perfect and wrote a book with errors…would you do what I told you to do in said book?
Ron
January 7, 2011
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Nobody is looking for God we have all gone astray. All the arguments I read on this blog make it clear you are NOT looking for God – you are looking for excuses not to believe in God. That is clear by your weak arguments for not believing.
At then end of the day, you’re arguing about whether or not an entity that lives outside of time and space and will never physically show himself exists. It’s impossible to prove one way or the other.
You don’t seem to realize that just because the Bible is a flawed book full of stories about unicorns, and sea monsters, and dragons, it doesn’t mean there is no God. It just means that you have to justify that belief by using something other than the Bible.
Nohm
January 7, 2011
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Dennis wrote: “The bible is not just one book written by one author in one place at one time. You guys are so focused on finding contradictions and/or error in the bible that you miss the message completely.”
That’s all well and good if we were talking about some secular book.
But we’re not.
We’re talking about a book supposedly created by an ALL-KNOWING AND ALL-SEEING GOD.
Big difference. I would expect contradictions and errors in a secular document, but not in a book that people claim is inerrant.
Dennis also wrote: “That is clear by your weak arguments for not believing.”
I really only have one reason for not believing and, in my opinion, it’s anything but “weak”:
You haven’t supported your claims. Only if and when you do will I accept them. Until then, your claims are just the same as a Muslim’s claims, and you don’t accept theirs, so why should I accept your bald assertions?
Dennis wrote: “You are blinded to the truth.”
Well, that’s God’s deal, right? It’s up to him to un-blind me, right?
Dennis
January 7, 2011
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Garret – I believe that God inspired these men to write the bible.
There is only a few times that we are told that God directly wrote anything at all, and one of those times is the 10 commandments.
Also my faith doesn’t come from the bible. My faith came from hearing the gospel. The good news. Almost exactly 4 years ago – I realized for the first time in my life that God is real, and that we are accountable.
The bible didn’t tell me this. It was the Holy Spirit that caused me to be “born again” – it caused me to feel very convicted of the sin I was committing and led me to my knees to cry out to God. After I prayed and repented of my sins, that’s when I started reading the bible as if for the first time. My eyes had been opened!
Early Christians did not have bibles they spread the message by mouth.
The message is simple: repent, believe on Christ, and be saved.
Dennis
January 7, 2011
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Hi Ron
My belief is justified by the blood of Christ. Take away the bible and I still believe that Jesus Christ is who he claimed to be.
I also still believe in God the Creator by what I can physically see around me. His word backs up what we can see for ourselves.
Pretty cool actually.
Also God DID show himself physically when he walked this earth (Jesus Christ) and we believe he will come back again to walk this earth. Meanwhile God is spirit, so once we die and leave this body of flesh we will enter the spiritual realm. The bible says that God dwells in unapproachable light. God IS light. He is also holy, and just, and righteous, and he is love. It was love that put Him on the cross to die for our sins taking the wrath that was meant for you and me.
So I would respectfully disagree that God does not physically show himself – He did 2,000 years ago!
Dennis
January 7, 2011
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Hi Nohm
I couldn’t agree more. It will be God that does the revealing.
Don’t look for man to sway you one way or another.
Listen to your God given conscience.
You have to admit there is something here within Christianity that doesn’t quite jibe with the rest of the world. I mean here is a belief that says: “come out of this world” and “don’t be comformed to this world”
It says to love one another, and to forgive one another. Pray for your enemy? Are you nuts?
What to do about Jesus Christ? Something special going on there… I mean it’s been 2,000 years and yet we still use his name as a curseword.
There is power in his name. People face torture rather than forsaking and denying their faith in Christ. I would find this very fascinating as a none believer – but now as a believer in Christ – I understand.
Christianity continues to be the fastest growing religion in the world.
It offers hope for the hopeless, healing for the broken. And there is nothing we do to deserve it, earn it, or manipulate it. Grace and grace alone. Amazing! I continue to pray for you Nohm.
vintango2k
January 7, 2011
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@ Ron
Exactly. I have never once, not ONCE claimed God doesn’t exist. The only thing that I claim that I challenge is that his authors and translators are flawed, and that YEC is wrong. I mean my Pope basically admitted that yeah, the Creation story is just a story. Catholics accept this, the secular world accepts this, scientists accept this, but for some reason Young Earthers can’t. I understand the importance of faith, in fact I prayed, I got down on my knees and admitted what a filthy rotten human being I was and acknowledged my sins, I asked Jesus to accept me despite these sins, and acknowledged that I wasn’t the center of the universe and that I could do better. If I died tomorrow I’d go to heaven! I’ll of course continue to try and help my fellow man and be the best human being I can be, but I doubt I’ll be able to completely stop sinning in the future. Which is true for just about every human being currently in existence. I haven’t made a case against God not existing because as Ron puts it, its impossible to know the scope of an omnipresent being that exists outside of the physical realm. If God is infinite and capable of anything and makes the rules, why would he be bound by the rules of a book especially if that book is extraordinarily vague?
vintango2k
January 7, 2011
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@Dennis
Wow. So Dennis… you’re a Christian, right? Are you protestant? Are you a member of a denomination that long ago decided to separate itself from the teachings of the Catholic Church because their leaders DARED to question tenets of that faith? As far as I can tell, yes you have to have faith in a God, because when you get right down to it, there’s no physical evidence of one. True believer Christians have toiled endlessly to verify the accounts of the Bible, they’ve searched for the remains of Noah’s Ark, the Tower of Babel, the Garden of Eden and even the Great Flood, but with every new scientific discovery from biology to physics the biblical account is contradicted. Its become so obvious that the Pope stated, Yes they’re just stories but God still exists. Because you take it all on faith, you either believe or you don’t believe. I choose to believe in GOD, but I chose NOT to believe in the DOGMA of the Bible. And for those of you who think that, I’m saying this just so I’ll have some excuse to sin and do whatever the heck I want to do, or continue to deny the savior, or keep up a sense of stubborn pride, or that I don’t want to be accountable to anyone, then you need a serious dose of HUMILITY because your arrogance is amazing. Having doubt in something doesn’t mean it excuses me from being moral and doesn’t give me carte Blanche to keep on sinning or acting wicked in some manner.
I believe that we should help our fellow man, love one another, and try to be the best human beings we possibly can. That we should do our best to not lie, cheat, or steal. That we should not hurt each other, harm each other, or hate each other, and that we should help someone in need. As Perdita had once said, we are accountable for our actions, we’re accountable to ourselves, our friends, our family, our society and if you have faith, our God, and I believe our works mean something because they define our lives. We should really strive to be the best we can be, and over the course of our lives we do encounter people, concepts, or moments in time that cause us to question our faith. I take solace in the fact that if God can forgive mass murderers as you claim, then he’s capable of forgiving a lowly doubter.
vintango2k
January 8, 2011
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@ Dennis the Sequel
People undergo torture rather then deny the Holy Spirit because denial of the Holy Spirit is an unforgivable sin. Meaning that even if they’re coerced and tortured within an inch of their life, if the person torturing them gets them to deny it, they’re damned forever. Because apparently, according to the Bible, God can forgive any sin… any sin at all except the sin of doubt or denial. Even if you mentally doubt it you’re still eternally damned.
I’m kind of curious though Dennis, if your belief in the literal interpretation of the Bible is so strong then why don’t you believe in the last words Jesus Christ said before he ascended into heaven. Check out Mark 16: 15-18 and tell me how much arsenic or cyanide you’ve ingested or how many people you’ve laid hands on to heal.
I also find it interesting that the only way to salvation is belief AND baptism according to Mark. So every single man woman and child in the world after Jesus said those things was damned. Once again geography alone has condemned hundreds of generation of people, this time not because they didn’t know about Jesus or didn’t have faith but because they were not baptized. I’ve been baptized, have you?
Dennis
January 10, 2011
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Hi Vin
The way to salvation is: repentance of your sins (not just say sorry but actually stopping those sins) and faith and trust in Jesus Christ.
Not the pope. Not Mary. Not any other “saint”
Baptism is also not a requirement of salvation. 1st time I was baptized was as a baby growing up in a Roman Catholic part of the Netherlands.
About 4 years ago when I was saved and gave my life to Christ I was baptized again. This time it was by choice and it was to show outwardly what had happened inside. God has cleansed me off my sins and given me a new heart and desires. Baptism did not save me. Jesus Christ is the one that saved me by His blood on that ROMAN cross! The catholic church still parades our savior around on a broken cross – all symbolic of showing their “power” over god. Or else they picture a baby Jesus in the arms of Mary. Again symbolic of how little the Catholic church things of Jesus. Instead of exalting Him as KING, as LORD, and as SAVIOR – guess who gets the spot light? Mary does.
Jesus said: “I am the way the truth and the life, no man comes to the father but by me”
You have heard the Gospel message numerous times and yet continue to reject it. In your own mind you have created a god that doesn’t exist. You reject the word of God and pick and choose what you like and what you don’t like. Don’t feel like you are alone in doing this. Why do you think the 1st Commandment is: Don’t have any Gods before me?
Also the Catholics take away commandment number 2: Don’t make for yourself any graven image and bow down before it. As in bowing down before a statue of Mary, etc.
Mark 16:15 – AWESOME scripture! Jesus telling all Christians to go into all the world to preach the GOOD news. The whole reason for this blog. Whoever believes in Christ and believes that He died and rose again on the 3rd day – will be saved. Awesome. Baptism shows that you now have this faith (not necessary for salvation if you look at other scripture and put this in context)
When Jesus’s disciples went out: they spoke in tongues ACTS 2:4
Apostle Paul went out and was bit by a snake and just shook it off and continued ministering. The disciples were able to heal people and perform a number of miracles as GOD enabled them to do.
Are these things still possible today? I believe they are possible but only as God provides these gifts as He pleases. Right now we seem to be in a time of great unbelief which might be why we are not seeing as many miracles? Jesus himself couldn’t perform many miracles in his hometown because of unbelief. Even his own brothers did not believe in him until later in life.
Don’t let these things stumble your coming to faith in the TRUE and LIVING God – Jesus Christ. Vin – Jesus is the one that hung on the cross for your sins. Put your faith and trust in that – humbly ask God to forgive you, ask God to show himself to you – and He will! God is not willing that any should perish. God so loved the world that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us.
vintango2k
January 10, 2011
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@Dennis
Again, its up to interpretation… I’m aware of what miraculous things the apostles did, or rather some of them, but the way the sentence is structured doesn’t sound like he’s referring JUST to the Apostles.
“Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”
Belief AND baptism is required to get saved. If you’re not baptized you can’t be saved, I don’t see how you can take this passage out of context. And furthermore he talks about the signs for those who believe. He’s talking to the apostles in this passage, if he’s referring to their past accomplishments then why doesn’t he just say this?
“Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. By the power of the Holy Spirit, you have done the following: In my name you have driven out demons; you have spoken in new tongues; you have picked up snakes with your hands; and when you drink deadly poison, it did not hurt you at all; you have placed your hands on sick people, and they got well.”
The latter edited passage makes perfect sense and I’ll even agree that that’s probably what Jesus was referring to, he was recapping past feats of faith. But the mistranslation leads people to other conclusions, because Jesus doesn’t mention specifics, he doesn’t call any apostle out by name and in the context of his speech he’s not even referring to just the apostles he’s clearly saying anyone that believes can do these things. To this date we don’t have recorded evidence of people doing these feats. Instead we get Peter Popov, who uses lies and deception to bilk people out of money in some twisted faith healing scam.
We seem to be in a time of great unbelief? Are you saying that in the earlier days of Jesus when there were NO Christians and no one believed he was the true son of God that he was able to perform miracles like walking on water, raising the bed, and multiplying loaves and fishes? Today there are billions…. BILLIONS… of Christians. There are more Christians alive today then there were people alive on the ENTIRE planet during Jesus’ time. How can we live in a time of great unbelief when MORE people believe in God then ever before, and ACTIVELY seek out evidence of his miracles?
And again Dennis. Arrogance. Being humble is Christian. You again assume that I have not recently prayed to God and asked for forgiveness. I have done all this, being preached at isn’t necessary, I have a personal relationship with God. And you miss the point entirely I’m not denying the hanging on the Cross aspect, or denying Jesus’ life and or sacrifice of his physical body to himself to forgive sins, I’m just commenting on how the Bible can be misinterpreted due to mistranslation. You see I think we need another Council of Nicaea. We can convene every apologetic, every pastor, every priest, bishop, deacon, pope, or biblical scholar of merit and get them together in a room like they did before and vote on the exact meanings of Biblical passages, update the text of the Bible in a unified manner so that there is one clear message of the Bible that makes sense to everyone who reads the Bible from the Layman to the Scholar. For instance, Leviticus 20:27 in the NIV Bible reads: “A man or woman who is a medium or spiritist among you must be put to death. You are to stone them; their blood will be on their own heads.” whereas the King James reads, “A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood [shall be] upon them.”
NIV calls for stoning of mediums or spiritists, basically people who claim to commune with spirits , while King James, says Wizards, someone who demonstrates the ability to use magic. Both are different things as we understand them, why not just get together and vote on better updated language like:
A man also or woman that physically demonstrates a power that is defined as supernatural or beyond the ability of mortal people, ie. speaking with spirits, or transmuting materials, or controlling the elements with mental powers, etc, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood [shall be] upon them.
Pretty straight forward, no? You also can not claim that this is blasphemous either because we’ve CLEARLY done this in the past as evident in the different versions of the Bible.

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