Atheist Tuesday: A New Way to Witness to Atheists

110 CommentsAtheist Tuesday, E-vangie VIDEO!

I’ve pretty much given up trying to reason with atheists.

No matter what evidences I give that there is a God they will always reject it. Always. For the most part I have never met such a recalcitrant, incorrigible group.

I mean it’s ridiculous. They are everywhere and they pretty much say the same thing, like they’ve read a special book or something on how to deny the truth of a Creator using the same old standard ten or so questions.

For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.

So what’s a Christian to do? We can’t ignore them. We still have to give the truth of God’s standards and the Good News to them because they are perishing. We are to love our enemies, bless those who curse us, do good to those who hate us and pray for those who mistreat us according to Jesus (Luke 6). But how can you deliver God’s Word in a way that they will understand, even though they may outright reject it every time?

Build a better mousetrap.

Try a gentle Q & A. Give them the first minute or so to state their case on why they are an atheist, then graciously ask a few questions. I tried this out on an atheist at a recent street fair. Watch what happens:

There is no need to get yourself embroiled in a debate when they use misinformation and lousy facts (e.g. Frank said, “…most of the stuff in the bible is stolen from other religions.” “Jesus was a guy…who was looking for political support…” etc.). If you argue against these statements, you’ve lost. You are on their turf now and you will lose. (Read why you can’t argue with atheists here.) Not only that, you will have lost the primary goal in this encounter: Get the Word out.

Remember, you are not trusting in your wise and persuasive arguments, you are trusting in the fact that God’s Word will do it’s work. (See my previous article on the efficacy of God’s Word here.) Ask a few questions. Listen attentively to the atheist’s response then ask another evangelistic question.

This even “works” on college students:

Conclusion: Be gentle. Don’t argue. Ask poignant questions. Listen. They will have no idea what you are doing—and they don’t have to.

God knows.

Comments (110)

  1. Garrett

    Reply

    You don’t argue because you can’t. You flee and hope other posters here will pick up the slack.

    It’s sad, really.

    • Nohm

      Reply

      Steve, with all due respect, you have to admit that the majority of the time you try to leave it to other posters to answer. And usually they don’t even attempt to do so, except for Richard. Which… no.

      I’m really hoping that this is just one of your “It’s a joke, have a sense of humor!” posts.

      • Glenn Parker

        Just because you don’t like an answer doesn’t mean it’s not the answer. Besides, you deny the very ally that God has built into your own conscience.

        Go ahead….say I’ve failed mind reading. We all expect that by now. I’m not reading your mind. I’m reading what God has declared about your soul, which you also deny.

        Garrett, Steve doesn’t argue because there’s no point other than to satisfy your need to argue. You’ve been given the truth; what you do with it is between you and God.

      • Nohm

        Hi Glenn,

        You wrote: “Just because you don’t like an answer doesn’t mean it’s not the answer.”

        I completely agree. Now, where can you point out me writing that I don’t like a particular answer?

        Do you understand the difference between making a claim and demonstrating a claim?

        “Besides, you deny the very ally that God has built into your own conscience.”

        No, I simply don’t accept your non-demonstrated claim that my conscience is God-given. Your claim is currently unsupported, but I’m listening.

        “Go ahead….say I’ve failed mind reading.”

        Well, not blatantly here, just the whole thing of telling me what I deny. Do you see a problem with failed mind-reading?

        “We all expect that by now.”

        Because you do it a lot? You do understand that I have a reason for pointing it out when you do it, right? Do you like it when other people tell you what you think or believe, when it’s completely incorrect?

        I sincerely doubt it.

        “I’m not reading your mind. I’m reading what God has declared”

        If you had read what I’ve written before on this blog, when Steve presented that to me, you’d know that I understand that concept. You’re supposedly not doing failed mind-reading, but instead just telling me your interpretation of what the Bible says about non-believers.

        But, as I’ve pointed out to Steve, you guys don’t seem to stop there; you tell me (and us) what I (and we) think, even when there’s no scriptural support for it. If you’d like, I could go back to our evolution discussion on your blog and grab some quotes to support my claim.

        “about your soul, which you also deny.”

        No, I simply do not accept non-demonstrated claims of an invisible, undetectable “soul”. If you can support your claims, I’ll happily believe in souls.

        Because what I want to be true or not be true has no relevance to what is reality. That’s why I agree with your first point of me not liking an answer (which, again, I think you pulled out of nowhere).

        “Garrett, Steve doesn’t argue because there’s no point other than to satisfy your need to argue.”

        Nice ret-con job there.

        “You’ve been given the truth; what you do with it is between you and God.”

        Huh. Okay, then.

      • perdita

        I’m reading what God has declared about your soul, which you also deny.

        The problem with that is you don’t seem to care if what you read is true or not. You don’t actually compare what you think God says about Nohm with what Nohm says about Nohm.

        You don’t seem to care that what we learn about our history, our world, and our universe is incompatible with a literal reading of the Bible.

        And even if you actually know that your conception of God is actually true, I have no way of verifying this. I can’t trust God – He’s MIA. And even then, how will I know what I’m trusting is your God and not just my wishful thinking (or one of those demons you guys tend to believe in).

        I can read the Bible, but I have a completely different take on it than you and no reason to discard my understanding for your understanding. I hate to beat Steve over the head with the laminins, but it seems that having a good story is more important for some of you than having the truth of a matter.

      • Glenn Parker

        Perdita said “You don’t seem to care that what we learn about our history, our world, and our universe is incompatible with a literal reading of the Bible.”

        Correction: I don’t seem to care about what latest theories and/or ideas that you have accepted when they are incompatible with God’s Word.

        Given that correction, I’d say RIGHT ON, Perdita!

        Truth is immutable. What you are calling truth is merely the latest utterings of some fallible man. Are you naive enough to think that the latest theories will be unchanged 50 years from now? The Bible isn’t written in some lost dialect. You can read it in your native modern language. Just another reason that none of us have any excuse on Judgment Day.

      • vintango2k

        @ Glenn

        I fully expect that the current scientific theories we have will be IMPROVED upon, like how relativity improved Newtonian physics but I don’t expect there to be a slash and burn approach to every scientific theory we have unless there is some sort of amazing discovery in the natural world that will warrant that.

        The Bible was written by men. Fallible men. And in some cases men who imitated the writing styles of other gospels or held themselves up to be original apostles or gospel writers when they were not. Coupled with it being an era with little to know means of testing falsehoods and fakery there is every reason to trust people when they make claims in this day and age (especially in the field of science) as opposed to the writers of the Bible.

        I know that YOU don’t want to accept things that jive with your absolutist look at the Bible but I can keep calling a white sheep black all day long… doesn’t mean its really black…. it just makes me look foolish.

    • Garrett

      Reply

      Glenn, he gives us an answer. We scrutinize the answer. Steve runs away.

      If his answer is invalidated, then it’s really not going to satisfy anyone!

      • Steve Sanchez

        Steve must concentrate on his work at hand and stick to encouraging evangelists.

        Priorities.

        As much as I enjoy all of you on this blog, it is not nearly as important to me that I answer your questions as you think they might be.

      • Garrett

        Maybe it was a mistake, so let’s try again:

        Nohm has asked you for evidence since Tuesday. You have made multiple comments, many of which were nonsense revolving around Beatles’ lyrics. Your time is so precious, so why respond to fluff like that instead of what should be more relevant and important questions (to you)?

        I have a feeling I know why.

  2. Nohm

    Reply

    “No matter what evidences I give that there is a God”

    Like what? I asked this last week, and got nothing.

    What evidences, besides claiming “design” without demonstrating it, do you have?

    You claim that you give evidences. I say that my experiences are otherwise. As I said last week, when you didn’t reply then either: I’m listening.

    • Nohm

      Reply

      1 Peter 3:15

      But sanctify the Lord God in you hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear.

      Steve, it’s my opinion that you have an incorrect view of your discussions with atheists. You say that we reject your evidences, but you don’t say the specific reasons that we give for doing so.

      • revulayshun

        Function is not simply evidence for design, it is absolute proof. The heart, lungs, eyes, liver, kidneys, and stomach all have specific functions. This proves forethought, purpose, intent and design.

      • Vagon

        RE: revulayshun

        What are your thoughts on the obvious imperfections in those organs?
        What about the non-functioning vestigial body parts you did not mention?

        Not what I would want to label absolute proof, but you are more than welcome to show how it is. Something to do with the fall perhaps?

      • Nameless Cynic

        No, rev, it doesn’t.

        The human body is a remarkably inefficient engine, prone to breaking down constantly. If there was “forethought, purpose, intent and design,” the whole mechanism would be built better.

        As it is, the human body shows itself to be a series of systems that evolved gradually over time, with changes that developed to correct the flaws in other parts.

        You bring up the eyes, as if they’re something amazing. Why do 75% of adult Americans require some sort of vision correction?

        The heart? Heart disease is the #1 cause of death the world over. Lungs, liver, kidneys, stomach? All prone to breakdown and failure.

        If that’s evidence of design, you have a pretty amateurish designer doing the job, or we’ve been built from spare parts.

      • Nohm

        revulayshun wrote:

        “Function is not simply evidence for design, it is absolute proof.”

        That is a claim. Please support it. How is “function” evidence for intelligent design, much less absolute proof of it?

        “The heart, lungs, eyes, liver, kidneys, and stomach all have specific functions.”

        For the sake of discussion, I’ll agree with this.

        “This proves forethought, purpose, intent and design.”

        Please show how this conclusion follows from your premise. In other words, you missed a step.

  3. Nathan W.

    Reply

    Hi Steve,

    I have been reading a lot of the questions and comments on your blog, and sympathize greatly with you in your attempts to reason. The atheists who comment here do not appear to want to understand anyway. You have a good attitude in your responses. I often wonder why they want to waste so much time and energy protesting against a God who they say doesn’t exist. If there is no God then it doesn’t matter what anyone does, it is all arbitrary anyway.

    • Nohm

      Reply

      Hi Nathan,

      You wrote: “The atheists who comment here do not appear to want to understand anyway”

      Nathan, what gives you that idea? I can promise that I do want to understand, most likely more than you are aware.

      How exactly does someone “not want to understand”? Is that even possible?

      “I often wonder why they want to waste so much time and energy protesting against a God who they say doesn’t exist.”

      Nathan, a couple of things about this:

      1. If you actually wonder this, and this is not simply a rhetorical point, you could ask us.

      2. We’re not protesting against God. We’re protesting against people who make magical claims but do not attempt to demonstrate that the claims are true.

      Nathan, do you understand that there is a difference between “I don’t agree with God” and “I don’t agree with people who claim that there is a God”?

      “If there is no God then it doesn’t matter what anyone does, it is all arbitrary anyway.”

      I’m sorry that you feel that way. I think you’ll find that non-believers do not have that point of view. The existence or non-existence of your God, in our opinion, does not influence the meaning of human actions.

      Why do you think “it is all arbitrary anyway” if God does not exist? Please explain your reasoning.

      Maybe you should research this subject further, Nathan.

      Be well.

    • vintango2k

      Reply

      Nathan, I found my way to this blog when I started to look into young earth creationism. I had never experienced or encountered this thinking, for me science and rationality was obvious but I became fascinated that there were people out there that believed these things. Having never been evangelical and simply just a Catholic I thought it would be fun to jump into the conversation on the side of rationality in the hopes of understanding other viewpoints and trying to argue in favor or reason in the hopes of changing minds. I have recently become agnostic as I don’t think I can reconcile having a rational thought process and believing in the infallibility of the Bible, which is pretty much the only link between mankind and a supposed God at least according to Christianity.

      • Char

        If you are looking for rationality and are into researching young earth creationism, type into youtube ” Ian Juby complete creation ” . He is a MENSA member! For those who don’t know what that is, it is a secular club for geniuses who’s IQ is off the charts! The series is quite entertaining with lots of science and rationality! By the way, he answers very quickly to people who write hime and frequently interacts with agnostics and atheists who have questions about his claims. Just thought you’d like to know this info.

      • perdita

        He is a MENSA member!

        Char, high IQ doesn’t somehow protect people from being crackpots or from being duped.

      • Nohm

        I will look him up, Char, although I don’t have high hopes.

        Still, can’t say anything until I watch/listen to him.

      • Nohm

        Ohhhhhhhh, it’s THAT guy. The “frogs turn into princes” guy.

        Next, please.

  4. Nohm

    Reply

    My best case for atheism in one minute:

    “I see no reason to accept claims from you that when they are given by other religions, you yourself don’t accept them. Do you believe the miracles of the Qur’an? No? Then why should I believe the miracles of the Bible?

    Also, I have not seen you demonstrate your claims that a God exists, therefore I will remain (for the time being) not believing fanciful and magical stories, until you can demonstrate that your claims are true.”

    40 seconds to spare. 🙂

    • Nohm

      Reply

      By the way, I watched both videos. Good on Joey and Frank. I gotta admit, I’m a bit more impressed by Joey due to his age.

      I’ll note again that, while Joey and Frank seemed to be trying to have a conversation with you, you were just reading off your script. That would kind of annoy me in person, although I admit I’d also find it pretty funny. 🙂

      It’s just a joke! Have a sense of humor! 😉

      • Garrett

        Yeah, your evidence was dismissed by the rebuttal. Meaning you are wrong. Either get actual evidence or pack up and go home.

      • Nohm

        Hi Steve,

        I’ll happily answer that as soon as you answer my question:

        Besides “DESIGN”, which you have claimed but not demonstrated, what evidences have you presented?

        You use the word “evidences”, which is plural.

        I’d also suggest that claiming that atheists all say the same thing is, at best, disingenuous. C’mon now.

        But, if you answer my question about evidences, I’ll be more than happy to answer your question about what I think of the “Unless you repent, you too shall perish” claim.

      • Nohm

        Hi Steve,

        This is my own curiosity, but I find it strange that you ask questions of me (such as “What do you think Jesus meant…”) before you’ve attempted to answer my questions.

        Is there a particular reason why you do that? Again, this is just purely curiosity.

      • Vagon

        What do think Lennon meant when he said, “I am the walrus, goo goo g’joob?”

        Why should we care what Lennon or Jesus meant?

      • Nohm

        If the “review the video” comment is for me, I’ve already explained that I watched the video.

        My curiosity question isn’t so much “why do you ask that particular question?”, but “why do you ask any question before answering a question posed to you first?”

        Makes sense? If so, I’m curious to hear your answer.

        I have no point to make with this question, it’s just pure curiosity regarding how someone else thinks.

      • Steve Sanchez

        I’ve pretty much given up trying to reason with atheists.

        No matter what evidences I give that there is a God they will always reject it.

      • Nohm

        Hi Steve,

        Just to clarify: I’m most interested in your answer to my “what evidences?” question.

        We can follow this pattern, if you like:

        1. You happily answer my ‘what evidences?” question.
        2. I happily answer your “what did Jesus mean when he said…” question.
        3. You happily answer my “why do you ask questions before answering questions posed to you by the same person?” question.
        4. I happily answer any following questions from you.

        Does that work for you?

        Thanks!

      • Bizzle

        Jim,

        Whether or not you believe that Jesus is the Son of God or not, you cannot argue he wasn’t a real person. There is evidence a man named Jesus lived on this earth.

      • Steve Sanchez

        Bizzle,

        I’ll ask you the question that Jim will ask: “What evidence?”

        When you show him the evidence, he’ll rebut it and ask 20 more questions. When you answer those, he’ll ask you 40.

        Kinda like achieving Nirvana for the Buddhist, w/o the reward.

      • Nohm

        So Steve,

        You’re still going to claim that you presented “evidences” (plural, I note), yet not list a single one.

        How about this: if you list the evidences that you have brought forward, I will not argue against a single one.

        I’m just incredibly curious as to how you see this situation.

      • Nohm

        Steve wrote: “When you show him the evidence, he’ll rebut it and ask 20 more questions. When you answer those, he’ll ask you 40.”

        Okay, I’m really interested to see the scriptural reference for THAT.

        Or else you’ll have to admit to failed mind-reading.

        Again, I find this absolutely fascinating that, even though you’ve been corrected on your failed mind-reading multiple times that you still continue to do it without shame or scriptural support. There simply seems to be something inside of you, and others, that sees it as “okay” to tell other people what they think, what they do, what they plan to do, and so on.

        Is there any point where you feel “this is wrong to do”?

      • Nohm

        Because I think it’s the honorable thing to actually respond to questions (a-hem), I will reply to Steve’s question even though it seems that this is a one-way discussion.

        Steve asked: “What do you think Jesus meant when he said, “Unless you repent, you too shall perish?””

        I don’t know what he meant, and the first thing I’d do if I could ask him would be “please define exactly what you mean by repent, and exactly who I should be repenting to”. Not what Steve thinks, not what Richard thinks, not what the Pope thinks, but what Jesus meant.

        I would then ask him what he meant by “perish”. As you say, Steve, 10 out of 10 people will die at some point, so I would question his use of “unless” at the beginning of the sentence.

        Lastly, I would ask him what the point of the statement is. Not what Steve thinks, not what the Pope thinks, but what Jesus meant.

        Even then, I would have to view Jesus as an authority to have the sentence mean something to me.

        Lastly, I’d point out that all we have is a book that claims that Jesus said this. I don’t know if he did or not.

        So, in short, I don’t know why someone wrote that Jesus said this, and I don’t see it as being applicable to me because I don’t see Jesus as an authority.

        See? Answering questions is easy, when you’re honest! 🙂

      • Michael Mock

        @ Bizzle – Steve’s essentially right about this one. There is no independent, contemporary historical evidence for the existence of Jesus. The evidence for the existence of Jesus is Christianity, which makes for a bit of a circular argument. On the other hand, I don’t think you can effectively disprove the historical existence of Jesus, either – and for pretty much the same reason. No, if you believe the Jesus really existed, then it is (and, as our host has argued before, it must be) a matter of faith.

      • Nameless Cynic

        Aw, Bizzle, shouldn’t try to argue from ignorance. Bad idea. Unless you’re familiar with the source material, you should probably read up on it.

        Most of the “evidence” for the existence of Jesus comes from after His lifetime, so it’s not a stretch to posit that He was made up out of the whole cloth. And many scholars have.

        I personally like Allvar Ellegard’s take on the subject.

        …the historian in this case, as in so many others, will say neither “The evidence is that he lived there and then” nor “The evidence is that he did not live there and then”. The logical possibility of the existence of Jesus (at the religiously assumed place and time) cannot be denied, but the evidence seems to be too weak to give such a statement a minimum probability…

        There are a couple of pagan sources that suggest that such a person did indeed get put to death by Pontius Pilate (Tacitus is the first name that leaps to mind), so I suspect He existed, just without the miraculous powers.

    • Bizzle

      Reply

      Nameless, the Tacitus source is the one I am familiar with. Don’t know why you claim I am ignorant.

      I am of the belief that there is a God and Jesus was his son. My beliefs differ from Steve’s in the details. Am I right? I believe I am. Won’t know for sure until I die. Same can be said for all of us. On this point I think we can all agree.

      • Nameless Cynic

        Unfortunately, Tacitus was writing about Christians, and merely mentioned Christ as being who they were named after.

        Plus, he wrote it about a hundred years later that Christ was supposed to have lived. So, not really a contemporary reference.

      • Vagon

        “Am I right? I believe I am. Won’t know for sure until I die. Same can be said for all of us.”

        Actually you’re loading the dice here. How will you “know” something when your brain is no longer functioning (you’re permanently dead).

      • Bizzle

        Vagon,

        Not really loading the dice. When I die, I’ll either go to Heaven or Hell, or nothing will happen because there is nothing after life.

  5. vintango2k

    Reply

    Its difficult to convince people to think superstitiously once they’ve learned to think rationally Steve, especially when you have no evidence. Christians would be the first group to crow to the mountain tops if any physical evidence for what they believe in surfaced or ‘stretch’ any physical evidence to fit what you believe in as well, I think your laminin ‘exaggeration’ proved that. So instead you have to rely on faith or confidence that what you say or believe is correct, and with some people that just isn’t going to fly. Tell me Steve, do you ever ponder why God provided no physical evidence for he/she/its existence? That every claim about the natural world in the Bible has proven to be incorrect? When these people say things like that to you, does it just go in one ear and out the other?

  6. Vagon

    Reply

    Here’s some honest advice, straight from the horse’s mouth: When you witness to us you need to think about how your reasoning sounds.

    Its pretty simple to do. If you have a particular argument to put forward think about how that argument could be used to argue for something else you do NOT believe in.

    You just have to think about anything you don’t believe in (it can be as silly as a unicorn or bigfoot) and apply the same argument.

    So for example on this blog I have heard: “You just have to have to have faith it is true and then you will see it is true.”

    Apply that to bigfoot and if at the end you don’t believe in bigfoot think about the reasons why. They are the same reasons an atheist wont find your reasoning convincing.

  7. BathTub

    Reply

    So it seems like Ray you are giving up on Atheists too.

    You know in the years I have been reading Ray and your blogs I have never ever seen any conversions toward your beliefs (seen plenty away).

    I can certainly give you some tips.

    Don’t lie. That includes about science. Don’t state falsehoods about things I can verify, it certainly won’t help me to be convinced you have anything to teach about things I can’t verify. You don’t have to accept the science, but don’t lie about it. Lying shows that you don’t believe what you pretend to believe.

    Oh and that would include something we repeatedly ping you for ‘lie then pretend it was just a joke’.

    The one you have heard repeatedly, don’t tell me what I think. You see us mocking Richard all the time because he has his own conversations. He ignores what people say, then rattles off a pre-rehearsed speech based on what he wanted us to say.
    To much of your conversations is based on key word triggers.

    Joey did a fantastic job by the way. Highlighting your need to stick to a script.

    Don’t run away. It’s so amazingly easy to get Christians, including yourself to flee in terror from the conversation. You then ‘tell us what we think’ when you resort to saying we are asking insincere questions. Not true, but I do ask them precisely because I know they terrify you.

    • Nohm

      Reply

      For the record, Steve, I don’t ask the questions I do because I think they terrify you.

      I ask the questions that I do because your way of thinking and viewing the world is so completely different from mine in some key areas, and I find that difference to be both interesting and fascinating.

      The fact that you flee from most questions is a bummer to me, not a victory.

      • BathTub

        Victory isn’t the right word. Just when you know you have a question that makes them run for the hills you do keep coming back to it.

      • Nohm

        Hi BT,

        I guess for me the thing is that I *don’t* want them to run for the hills. 🙁

        But yes, I agree that there are many questions which result in that, unfortunately.

      • Nohm

        “Nohm, I didn’t come to faith by evidence.”

        I know. I’ve heard that recording of your testimony.

      • Vagon

        “I will provide for you evidences though in a future post. Really. Few weeks or so.”

        I hope you mean this sincerely and I”m sure you know we’ll hold you to your word and remind you that lying here would undermine your whole religious philosophy.

  8. john

    Reply

    Wait, a bunch of them everywhere… they all say pretty much the same 10 or so thing… as if they read some book…

    Hmmmm! Doesn’t that sound a little like the writer?

      • john

        I may have gotten your point, but I don’t think you got mine.

        We are nothing like Christians, who use one 2000 year old book and 10 commandments to try to preach what they believe is the truth. We use multiple sources, such as science, math, logic, reasoning and common sense.

        For example, the ever popular question “Is there a God?” is always answered with “Well yes! There was creation, so therefore there was a creator, so therefore there is a God”. Bulletproof argument – except not really. You see, the biggest hole with that argument is that you must believe in creation to believe in a creator. So I ask you, prove creation!

        To that you answer, “Look at this world! It is perfect for us to live in! How could it possibly be that something so perfect was not created for us?” Surely a disprovable argument! (By the way, those are looked down upon in science. If it cant be disproven, it cant be proven, and its a useless theory.) But to believe in that argument, you must put yourself on a such a high pedestal that you will not believe anything other than that the earth was created for us to walk on. Us. Humans. Such mighty, graceful and majestic beings. Oh thats right! Were not! Were all just sinners!

        So where am I going with all this? Am I going to change believers to non believers? Christians to atheists? Of course not. And I wouldnt want to! You have every right to believe everything you choose to believe, and as a fellow human being, it would be immoral for me to impose on that (yes, thats a hint to the preachers of the word of God).

        I just ask that you respect us unenlightened atheists and respect our beliefs and privacy. After all, we dont go around to Christians’ homes preaching the absence of God. So why should you come to ours?

        So stop trying to argue with us! We are not interested in your reasons for God’s existence, plans for salvation or promises of doom, Armageddon and the second of coming of Christ. And it is not because we are not aware of your beliefs! Believe me, your voices have been heard quite clearly for centuries! (Especially when it comes to discriminating against women, burning witches at the stake or preaching how immoral homosexuality is). It is simply because we are grown adults that cannot believe in a magical being in the sky who controls everything, just as much as we cannot believe in a fat man in a red suit who drops presents to the entire worlds’ chimneys on one night of the year, or a magical fairy that leaves money under your pillow and takes your tooth while you sleep.

        We are sick and tired of it, and we simply do not CARE. So please, keep your God to yourselves.

        Thank you and God bless you all!

      • Steve Sanchez

        Ummm, John… You do understand that this is an evangelism blog? What you just wrote motivates us more!

        Thanks for your comments though.

      • Nameless Cynic

        just as much as we cannot believe in a fat man in a red suit who drops presents to the entire worlds’ chimneys on one night of the year, or a magical fairy that leaves money under your pillow and takes your tooth while you sleep.

        Hey, speak for yourself, John!

        You don’t believe in Santa, then he doesn’t believe in you, and your stocking goes unfilled!

      • Laurie Griffin

        I don’t think Steve has any intention of “giving up on you” – he has just given up the arguing. Steve is one of the most faithful witnesses I know. He believes the Bible and because he believes the Bible, he cares about your souls enough to tell you what the Bible says. You have every right to believe whatever you want, but if the Bible is true, and Christians don’t warn unbelievers of their fate (according to the Bible) then they are awful, hateful people.

  10. Michael Mock

    Reply

    “We still have to give the truth of God’s standards and the Good News to them because they are perishing.”

    As a matter of idle curiosity… how many times? I mean, does the Bible say you should share the Gospel once and then let the Word do its work? Or that you should share the Gospel three times with everyone you meet, just in case? Or that if someone hears the Gospel but doesn’t seem to accept it, your duty as a Christian is to badger them until they give in? When are you finally allowed to shake the dust from your heels and go on to the next town?

    I ask because I seriously doubt that there are more than a handful of people in modern North America who aren’t familiar with the broad outlines of Christian belief (at the very least). At what point does further evangelism become redundant? Does it ever?

  11. john

    Reply

    Wait. So me asking for peace and quiet from your beliefs motivates you more to mess with our privacy? Gee, that’s very Christian of you. Thanks for your respect.

    • john

      Reply

      Right, right. I dont belong here, I understand. My ideas and beliefs arent welcomed because they are looked down upon by your holy spirit.

      I just dont understand why you people cant leave us alone? Why do you find it completely necessary to try and influence us with your beliefs? Why do you find it necessary to go out on the Prominade and scream words of Jesus?

      I have an instructor (more of a glorified babysitter, he doesnt actually teach anything) like that in the school I go to. Several years ago he lost his mind, left his family, moved to Tennessee with some young girl and smoked meth for 2 years. Now he has recovered and “found” Jesus Christ.

      Im sure you all rejoice hearing that, but my question to you is, is that REALLY a credible source? When you hear his story, do you REALLY say WOW! I want to end up like this guy! I want my life to turn out SO poorly that I have no other choice but to turn to a fairy tale for grown ups for support?

      I dont think so.

      Did you know that education and IQ have a direct correlation to spirituality? The higher your education and/or IQ, the more likely you are NOT to believe in God! I wonder why that is…

      So if you want to get more followers, go to where followers are made. A good place to start might be Tennessee ;-). Maybe the welfare agency or rehab. Places where people with a lower IQ and not a lot of ambition gather and stay. Thats where you will have luck converting people.

      Places like the Prominade in Santa Monica wont work because we dont CARE to listen to your sermon. We know what you are saying, we’ve heard it a million times and most of us were raised believing it. Yet somehow we have let our curiosity driven minds ask the questions that you cant answer, while you repress those questions, along with any thoughts and feelings that the bible condemns. Maybe thats why your priests become priests, thinking God will take away those feelings if you just serve Him hard enough. But alas, it doesnt happen and they end up Michael Jacksoning some poor little boy’s butt and ruining him for life because they repressed their own feelings for a Being they’re never seen.

      Any comments, Steve? Or are you just going to say I’m influencing you more?

      • Glenn Parker

        John, I have 2 masters degrees and a PhD. I don’t buy your so-called correlation between education and spirituality. God will judge you and me just the same. He won’t consider your pedigree.

        In fact, do you know what I’ve found? Someone who already believes in God and goes into a science curriculum will be driven closer to Him by the clear elements of design in nature. Conversely, a godless person will be driven farther away by the same curriculum.

        What’s the moral of this empirical data? The answer isn’t between your ears. It’s a matter of the heart. Please repent and believe the Gospel. Consider your own motives for posting here.

      • vintango2k

        @Glenn

        Your heart pumps blood. Its a muscle, your brain is where ALL of your thinking takes place. Most people that go into genetics and biology accept evolution but don’t have to reject a belief in God, though most of them reject the idea of intelligent design as there’s no evidence for it in nature. What are your masters in by the way?

  13. Thomas Moore

    Reply

    Good videos Pastor Steve! That is another great way to witness, allowing the person to explain themselves. Great job and God bless!

    • john

      Reply

      Actually, it wasnt very well said at all. It was just another sneaky little way to turn my words into something completely different.

      @Glenn

      I never said God see’s us differently because of our education levels. I said that people with higher education tend to believe in God less. There are many studies that support exactly that. Here are a few:

      http://unreasonablefaith.com/2010/09/10/education-versus-religion/

      http://thethinkingatheist.com/forum/Thread-States-and-religion-vs-education

      Im sorry about the sources, I really dont mean for them to be atheist websites. I dont even consider myself to be an atheist – I dont really consider myself to be any -ist or -ism, just alive and happy to be here! But it is the title that describes my views on a higher power and thats where the studies are published.

      So please dont twist my words around Glenn. But please, I would love to hear more about what you’ve found. Educated people finding design to be real. Please share an example or two if you can.

      And yes, by the way, you never answered what your Masters’ are in!

  15. perdita

    Reply

    Perdita said “You don’t seem to care that what we learn about our history, our world, and our universe is incompatible with a literal reading of the Bible.”

    Correction: I don’t seem to care about what latest theories and/or ideas that you have accepted when they are incompatible with God’s Word.

    Given that correction, I’d say RIGHT ON, Perdita!

    Glenn – it doesn’t matter what ideas I have accepted. That you first choose that your ideas of God’s Word are actually God’s Word in spite of contradictory evidence is the only point.

    Truth is immutable. What you are calling truth is merely the latest utterings of some fallible man.

    Then same for you. The Bible is simply more utterings from fallible man.

    Are you naive enough to think that the latest theories will be unchanged 50 years from now?

    No, I tend to hold ideas tentatively. I would rather be corrected than to continue holding false beliefs. But in order to change my beliefs, I do need to see convincing evidence or argument. Claims without support don’t cut it.

    The Bible isn’t written in some lost dialect. You can read it in your native modern language.

    I have read the Bible – as a believer in God – but found it to be the work of man and no more inspired than any other holy book.

    Just another reason that none of us have any excuse on Judgment Day.

    Well, since there’s no evidence for any sort of judgment day, I’m not terribly worried.

  16. perdita

    Reply

    (2nd attempt. Bold corrected for clarity. Thanks)

    Perdita said “You don’t seem to care that what we learn about our history, our world, and our universe is incompatible with a literal reading of the Bible.”

    Correction: I don’t seem to care about what latest theories and/or ideas that you have accepted when they are incompatible with God’s Word.

    Given that correction, I’d say RIGHT ON, Perdita!

    Glen – it doesn’t matter what ideas I have accepted. That you first choose that your ideas of God’s Word are actually God’s Word in spite of contradictory evidence is the only point.

    Truth is immutable. What you are calling truth is merely the latest utterings of some fallible man.

    Then same for you. The Bible is simply more utterings from fallible man.

    Are you naive enough to think that the latest theories will be unchanged 50 years from now?

    No, I tend to hold ideas tentatively. I would rather be corrected than to continue holding false beliefs. But in order to change my beliefs, I do need to see convincing evidence or argument. Claims without support don’t cut it.

    The Bible isn’t written in some lost dialect. You can read it in your native modern language.

    I have read the Bible – as a believer in God – but found it to be the work of man and no more inspired than any other holy book.

    Just another reason that none of us have any excuse on Judgment Day.

    Well, since there’s no evidence for any sort of judgment day, I’m not terribly worried.

    • vintango2k

      Reply

      @ Glenn

      Have you ever thought about how different Christianity would be if the Apocalypse of Peter had made it to canon in 397 rather than the Apocalypse of John?

  17. glenda

    Reply

    I am glad I have a bigger purpose in life than human relationships and commonality.

    Thanks Steve for the posts.

  18. glenda

    Reply

    Also regarding the 1st guy at the faire. I missed the part where Jesus was running for office or the fund raising for his campaign. What part of the bible was that again?…

  19. Laurie Griffin

    Reply

    I like this idea Steve. You were able to discuss the gospel without arguing. I will have to remember this. God Bless You!

  20. Nicholas Landsman

    Reply

    Nohm writes: “But sanctify the Lord God in you hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear.”

    Well, from your above comment and meditation on the Word, here it goes, for there is no argument or evidence that we as Christians may give other than the life, teaching, death, and Resurrection of Jesus Christ, for on this, the saving power of the cross, all our hopes as Christians hang, and without it, we preach folly to those who do not believe, yet the power of God to save for the believer… to attempt to convince you otherwise, with the wisdom of men, logic or elaborate philosophy or science, or any evidence apart from what we know by Faith Christ Jesus has done, would strip all the power from the cross… for God’s word is clear on this point…

    Nohm, you have also said at one point that you would agree that Jesus did live and have some sort of ministry based on historical evidence of his existence, as a man that is, please take the time to review the following arguments and evidence for Jesus Christ and his redemptive work, at least his life and resurrection:

    “And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith.” [ Apostle Paul ]
    “The coat of Christianity hangs on the peg of the Resurrection.” [ Ravi Zacharias ]

    Extra-Biblical Evidence (if you regard the following writers with contempt, tell me, only to their writings about Christ and Christians, or do you reject all their writings as inaccurate or adulterated?)

    Flavius Josephus (1st century) (this particular exert is generally accepted as unadulterated, whereas claims that Josephus called Jesus the Christ himself are generally thought to be edits)
    “At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus. And his conduct was good and he was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die.”

    Pliny the Younger (2nd century)
    “They were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sang in alternate verses a hymn to Christ, as to a God, and bound themselves by a solemn oath…”

    Cornelius Tacitus (1st century)
    “Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome… they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired.”

    What We Can Construct:
    A man named Jesus
    His proclamation of the kingdom of God
    Gathering of disciples
    Challenge to the Jewish religious leaders
    Executed by crucifixion under Pontius Pilate during the reign of Tiberius
    3 decades, 2000 miles away Christians are exceedingly numerous and are being executed through atrocious methods

    Comparison:
    Julius Caesar and the Rubicon (think this actually happened? I am not saying either way, yet:)
    Not exactly sure where the Rubicon is
    No first-hand testimonies of the event
    The mention in not mentioned in Caesar’s memoirs
    Four historians record the event
    2-3 generations removed
    Based on a single eyewitness account which has disappeared
    Best manuscripts are several hundred years removed from the originals

    Are the Gospels Trustworthy?
    Matthew & John (eyewitness disciples)
    Matthew, former tax collector
    Mark (followed Peter)
    Luke (followed Paul)
    Luke, doctor turned historian
    Multiple Independent Attestation

    When were they written?
    Alexander the Great’s bio –> 400 years removed
    Jesus Christ–>30 years removed
    Dating the synoptic gospels through Acts
    Mark, Matthew, Luke
    Luke is part of Luke-Acts
    No mention of destruction in Jerusalem and martyrdom of Paul and Peter
    Dating the confessions of faith, creeds, and hymns which speak of Jesus’ life, death, and resurrection found within Paul’s early letters

    Original copy « Oldest existing copy
    [shorter time gap, more reliable]
    Time gap
    Aristotle’s Poetics 1400 years
    Caesar’s Gallic Wars 1000 years
    Homer’s Iliad 500 years
    New Testament < 100 years (there is a Time Magazine article on this as well, and I can point you other more scholarly resources)

    # of copies of Manuscripts:
    [More # of copies, more reliable]
    # of copies
    Aristotle’s Poetics 5 MSS
    Caesar’s Gallic Wars 10 MSS
    Homer’s Iliad 643 MSS
    New Testament 20,000 MSS

    Manuscript Consistency
    Homer’s Iliad:
    764 lines (5%) is doubtful
    New Testament:
    Only 40 lines (0.5%) is doubtful

    Archaeology
    Luke 3
    Lysanias, Tetrarch of Abilene
    John 19
    Sejanus and ‘friend of Caesar’

    “Luke’s history is unsurpassed in respect of its trustworthiness…Luke is a historian of the first rank…this author should be placed along with the very greatest of historians”. [ Sir William Ramsay ]

    Google these:
    Ossuary of High Priest Caiaphas (1990)
    Skeletal Remains of Crucifixion
    Yehohanan, son of Chaggol (1985)
    Pool of Bethesda (1956)
    (side note, check out Adam Zertal and Old Testament Archealogy)

    Inference to the Best Explanation
    Well attested facts:
    The house is a mess
    Books are everywhere
    Hypothesis 1: broken in
    Hypothesis 2: earthquake

    Well attested facts:
    Post-Mortem Appearances
    Empty Tomb
    Origin of Christianity

    “As a historian, one could say, that there was not resurrection as a fact. What we can say is that people claim to have visions. People claim to have, as it was – sightings – post-mortem sightings, of Jesus.” [ Arthur Dewey ]

    “If the body had been discovered, there would be no Christian church today. It would have died out as a little sect in the Judean wilderness probably and everybody would have laughed about a crucified criminal being the son of God, come on.” [ Paul Maier]

    “I don’t think that most of the resurrection narratives in the New Testament are historical at all. But I don’t think there would have been a New Testament or a Jesus movement had there not been some astonishing experience of power that caused these people to see Jesus in a way they had never seen him before.” [ Bishop John Shelby Spong ]

    Naturalistic Explanations
    Swoon Theory (nearly dead)
    Medically impossible to survive rigors of crucifixion
    Half-dead Jesus doesn’t inspire worship
    Christianity started from this?

    Stolen Body / Conspiracy Theory
    Does not take seriously the catastrophe facing the disciples, or the Roman guards charged to watch it
    How about the appearances?

    Hallucination
    Groups of people, various locations, variety of circumstances
    Cannot account for overall evidence
    How about the empty tomb?

    The Resurrection Hypothesis
    Harmonizes the facts
    Has explanatory scope and power
    Is not ad hoc

    The resurrection is a cogent inference given the historical facts.

    God bless you, Nohm, and everyone on this blog, for regardless of whether you believe or not, God still blesses us all everyday, the sun rises on the believer and the unbeliever all the same, we experience the same joy, pains, and sufferings, yet in our suffering, in our joy, or in our pain, there is hope, an eternal hope that may never be taken away from us, for it has been freely given in Jesus Christ!

    Be well, God bless… Grace and peace to you…

    P.S. If Jesus did rise from the dead, and now lives, then perhaps the Bible is His Word… however imperfect a single translation may be, however imperfect our interpretation is as men, women and children, if we truly believe, the Holy Spirit will guide us in the truth of God's Word in the Bible, for it is not meant to be "voraciously" read, but meditated on, day and night… I pray you will take the above as a whole, and not pick a few things out that may be viewed as, "weaker arguments," and then disregard the whole power of the crucifixion of Jesus…

  21. Nohm

    Reply

    Hi Nicholas,

    Did you do all that work yourself, or did you copy and paste it from another source?

    I do not have the time right now to go through your comment and point out every single place that I disagree, and why I disagree, so I’ll simply disagree with this statement:

    “The resurrection is a cogent inference given the historical facts.”

    I completely disagree with that statement, and I think your usage of the word “facts” is in dispute. You appear to make a whole lot of assumptions with many of the items that you listed above.

    As for your P.S., I was a believer once. I’ve been there, done that. It’s not the arguments that make me a non-believer (although those certainly help), but my utter lack of any kind of “divine” experiences.

    Finally, I have to admit that I had a chuckle when you quoted Bishop Spong. Something tells me that there are many other quotes by him that you would not want to include. 😀

    • Steve Sanchez

      Reply

      Yes indeedy, Bishop Spong is less than, uh, orthodox, to put it mildly.

      I’d use stronger language to describe his heresies but don’t want to create an off-topic controversy.

  22. Nohm

    Reply

    One more thing:

    Original copy « Oldest existing copy
    [shorter time gap, more reliable]
    Time gap
    Aristotle’s Poetics 1400 years
    Caesar’s Gallic Wars 1000 years
    Homer’s Iliad 500 years

    Uhm, the Iliad? Have you been listening to Richard C.? 😉

    (Pssst, I don’t believe that the Iliad is a reliable recording of events)

  23. Nohm

    Reply

    Ooops, one last thing:

    “Nohm, you have also said at one point that you would agree that Jesus did live and have some sort of ministry based on historical evidence of his existence”

    That is actually incorrect. I said I would agree for the sake of discussion, and definitely not “based on historical evidence of his existence”. I have no problem, for the sake of discussion, accepting that there was a street preacher named Jesus, that the super-powered form of Jesus (found in the Bible) was loosely-based on.

    But that’s it. That doesn’t mean that I accept any of the supernatural claims from the Bible, just as I don’t accept any of the supernatural claims from the Iliad.

  24. Nicholas Landsman

    Reply

    Nohm,

    Did I do all the work myself? No. Much of it I have researched myself, and the framework for the argument was from a presentation on the resurrection from a philosophy doctoral student. As for the quote from Spong, it was included to show that even those that do not hold the Bible to be the inerrant Word of God still would ascribe a high level of significance to Christ’s ministry and the events surrounding the argued resurrection, as a skeptic or even heretic among the “christian” community, it was not included to attribute him as a theological authority, and I would think that this would be clear to someone as wise as you. I am surprised that it required an explanation. And in regards to the Illiad, not so much that it is an accurate recording of history, but that it was at least written by Homer and is loosely based on myth, legend, and perhaps some facts. Then I would point to the question of the missing body and the birth of Christianity in the face of persecution by men and women who otherwise abandoned Jesus, based on the gospels as historical documents, and the extra-biblical writings Jesus’ existence and of Christian persecution. What other theory explains it better than the resurrection?

    I find it very interesting that you say that it is the utter lack of “divine” experiences that are more cause for your turning away from the God of the Bible, and accepting Jesus as the Word of God found in the Bible. I am reminded of those who told Jesus to come down from the cross, and then they would believe! The Bible tells us that a wicked and adulteress generation asks for signs and miracles, or “divine” experiences. Especially since, I find, that our every breath is a miracle, for by the power of His word Jesus upholds the entire universe! (call it an assumption and disputable fact if you must)

    Jesus lived, He died a horrible death, we all drove a nail into Him, yes, even us Christians, and it is this fact that we remember every time we take communion… that He loved us and died for us while we were still slaves to sin, while we were His murderers… I too once thought that I would need to experience something “divine” to know the true God, and to say the least thought the Bible as less than God’s Holy Inerrant Word. However, God chased me down, He gave me the Faith I now have, for only He could. God created a perfect storm in my life that I may see Him seeking me, for I was running away from Him in every respect, didn’t even know that He existed. When I read the Bible, when I meditate on it, there is a harmony of the scriptures that is utterly unbelievable. And after gaining an understanding of the history of the Bible and its authors, rather than think it “man made” or adulterated, I find it a miracle that we have it in it’s entirety today. But again, its the life of Jesus, the crucifixion of Jesus for the propitiation of all sins, and the resurrection of Jesus to the glory of God the Father that is the greatest event in all history, and yes, it is a fact… for those that saw it as fact believed, those that lived it and walked with Jesus originally, yet blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe… From what we as Christians know in Jesus Christ, we choose the folly of the cross than all the wisdom of the world…

    Also, if you were talking of righteous Richard, then yeah man, I love that guy, for he is truly my brother in Christ! Praise God for the work He is doing in Richard and Steve! And yes praise God for you too Nohm! You ask for evidence, and we speak of the evidence of the Bible, of God’s Word, its illumination through archaeology and anthropology, not its proof, but illumination in context, which supplies at least some evidences that the Bible is historical and perhaps prophetical… the prophecies of Jesus, which we could argue till the end of the age are amazing for one… what evidence for God’s existence and the life and death and resurrection of Jesus Christ is more important than the Bible?! None, the Word, the Word, the Word of God! (by the way, ancient Hebrew culture was to repeat things that are very important…) Then Bible is historical, prophetic, poetic, literal, and figurative, yet such discernment is only granted through the Holy Spirit. I pray God will send someone or many that may speak with you face to face, I feel like so much is lost between the lines with all our posts on both sides…

    God bless,
    Nick

    An interesting article/website:
    http://biblicalstudies.info/top10/schoville.htm
    I like this page, and has some cool links… its relatively superficial, yet allows for a good survey of things you may want to look into more

    • Davy

      Reply

      It’s still just a book..written by man. And with several different versions. And i still don’t understand how people can see God or find him or be as Nicholas says,”chased by God.” Isn’t that what people say when they can’t control their drug use or alchoholism? The “drug is chasing them” “controlling them”….. I sense another addiction….it’s called “evangelism.” And in all honesty I don’t know which one is worse.
      Everything in MODERATION my friends. But then again, what do you expect when some of the evangelists have such addictive personalities as we have learned from their past. A little religion isn’t good enough eh? You just have to go out and do it more extreme than other believers.

  25. Nicholas Landsman

    Reply

    Davy,

    If I am addicted to Jesus, then Amen! And if not for the sake of others, that I may still have purpose in God’s will here on earth, then I would pray for an overdose =)
    If God is controlling me, then Amen! I could pray for nothing more valuable than to be made by God a vessel of His mercy, and not of His wrath.
    My heart breaks, and my soul, my very breath of life, cries that you may truly believe that you are not sure which is worse, a drug addiction or an addiction to Jesus that leads us to evangelism, that makes us shun moderation, which is to be lukewarm, those that will be spit out of the mouth of God. Remember, Jesus did not first come to condemn (judge) the world, but to save it. However, when He returns in His glory, He will come in judgement, and His judgement will start in the church, and in this regard I understand Islam’s belief that when Jesus returns He will bring His wrath on “so-called” Christians, perhaps those who call themselves Christians rather than those that others would call, “Christians.” The seven letters in Revelation speak to this…
    Know this, a heroin or methamphetamine addiction leads to a relatively wreckless way in life, and if sustained will ultimately end in an untimely death capping a life of selfishness and pain for all those who love the addict. However, the “Jesus addict” or true Christian that we so elusively describe and seek, will live a prudent life, perhaps meet an untimely death for the sake of Christ through evangelism, will love and increase the love of not only those who love him, but also complete strangers, he or she will feed the poor, take care of the widow and orphan, and love his enemy, blessing them… not that only Christians may live this way, but we do it prayerfully not for selfish ambition or a “all is divine” attitude, but because we know it to be the right thing to do… not that we are all doing it… I would recommend Isaiah 58 for an understanding of the life God wants us to live, if you would read just a book…
    May God bless you Davy in all that you set out to do, and I pray that you are ready for your own death, for yes, it comes to us all, perhaps sooner than we would care to meet it, yet in Christ I pray I am ready, I can not know for sure until that moment or time that I realize I face it, if I am given such time, but in my mind, heart, and soul, the eternal hope I have is secure, and will meet my death confidently in Christ, will you meet yours confidently? Or does it concern you at all? You will be in my prayers, grace and peace to you.

    Nick

    P.S. Patrick, Jesus is the truth, short and sweet. =) God bless and grace and peace to you as well Patrick.

    • Patrick

      Reply

      Nicholas,

      I thought Jesus was the answer, not the truth. LoL. I also feed the hungry and what have you. I don’t think any of you live truly to the words of Jesus, since well, for one you still have possessions like the computer you are writing on. God might be the truth, but the bible sure isn’t God.

      Secondly, I don’t think you truly understand death. You hope that there is an afterlife, so I would assume that your ego doesn’t want to die or accept what death really is. I know, it is scary to think that your ego won’t exist forever. Better wrap it in a superstitious blanket for comfort.

      I can agree to a golden rule, turn the other cheek, feed the hungry, love thy neighbor, and all of that good stuff. Since I have arrived at those conclusions also, but guess what not from the Bible, and no God didn’t write it onto my heart.
      Once you get into: give 10% to the church, everyone else is going to hell, capitol punishment is not murder, gays are evil, and you don’t need to lead by example but by preaching to people in public then you lose me.

      Good day,

      Patrick Frederik Petrus Johannes Liebregt

  26. Nicholas Landsman

    Reply

    Patrick,

    The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen His glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth… Jesus… the way, the truth, and the life, no ones comes to the Father but though Jesus… God’s word, the Bible, is very much God, although I am sure there is much more to Him than we could ever gather from reading it a million times… Unfortunately, I am not sure you understood my post, since I was only comparing a drug addict to an Christian evangelist, and this was not meant to be extrapolated to everyone, as my post eluded that it was not only the Christian that is generous and gives aid to the needy, the widow and the orphan… yet it is the Christian who strives, in the Spirit, to do these things from Faith, producing good fruit, while dying to themselves and striving to not be polluted by the world… and yes, we often fail to live up to Jesus’ standard, and that is why repentence is not a one time act, but continually occuring, much like baptism with the Holy Spirit is not a one time event, yet one can continually be filled with the Spirit… that is why we are saved by Grace, and not works, so that no man can boast save for in Jesus Christ!

    Also, I pray my ego won’t exist forever, that it is already dead, that it is not I who lives, but Christ in me… there is no room for my ego and I pray that it is assasinated moment by moment and ceases to exist, that my life will only exist in Jesus Christ, the AUTHOR and PERFECTER of our Faith…

    For it is written,
    “Fear of the LORD is the “beginning” of wisdom…”

    and elsewhere it is written,
    “…perfect love drives out all fear”

    and moreover,
    “God is love”

    Therefore we begin wisdom with the recognition of God’s existence and the respectful fear of His might and power and glory, and love (also God), perfected in us through a life dedicated and devoted to Jesus, (that He lives in us and we were crucified with Him in the flesh on the cross) the author and perfecter of our faith, that in our relationship with God in Christ Jesus, there is no more fear…

    God bless, and my prayer for you is that you do not allow politics and “religion” to blind your eyes and deafen your ears to the truth of gospel of Jesus Christ…

    P.S. many in the church are probably going to hell too, maybe even I, if I am not constantly evaluating myself and motives to see that I am in the faith, for I must, “work out my own salvation with fear and trembling”
    -10% is a guideline, a tradition, and not the gospel of Jesus, it is a bare minimum in a sense, an expectation, yet we as true Christians are to give our very lives as living sacrifices to God, and all our money is His, yet corporately we are to give all we can to the church, all that we are moved to give by living in the Spirit…
    -capital punishment may be controversial in many churches, yet I would submit that true Christians would not endorse state-sponsored murder, much like they do not support abortion, I do not support capital punishment myself…
    -no one is good, all have done evil in the eyes of the Lord, no one is righteous, save Jesus Christ!
    -and yes, we do need to live life by example, and that is why we do so by preaching on the street as one of our works, as evidence of faith, as part of producing good fruit among other good works expected of a life marked by faith…

    Grace and peace to you Patrick in the Lord Jesus Christ,
    Nick

  27. Emily

    Reply

    Well, the problem is that you’re trying to convince people of an idea that isn’t true. When you’re presenting evidence for an idea that isn’t true, of course clear thinking people will refute every bit of your false evidence.

    Tell me, what could an atheist say to convince you that you’re wrong? Probably nothing , right? How would you react if an atheist tried to convert you? You do realize, of course, that they have the truth firmly on their side, which is why they’re so easily able to refute your untruths.

  28. Donna Dennison

    Reply

    I googled how to witness to an Atheist and came upon this. Thank you for sharing. My oldest son is questioning the faith he grew up in. Which I do not discourage. He has to believe on his own. That is why it is called a personal relationship. However, he bombards me with all this information that is out there and becomes very aggressive. Your advice is, for me, spot on. My actions need to reflect the Love of God and a better Way. My words (not God’s) will not be sufficient. No use in debating. I had felt this way for about a week and reading this confirmed what I had been feeling. Speak God’s words (not mine) gently and lovingly and God can will reveal Himself in a way my son will accept Him. And, please pray for my son, Andrew. I named him after the first disciple and I trust his soul to God the Father. Thanks so much.

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