Atheist Q & A: Is EVANGELISM a good thing and is it really effective?

105 CommentsAtheist Tuesday

An atheist named LOGICAL asked: “I have a question for you. Why do you see evangelism as such a good thing? It seems to me that you would want people to find religion (particularly yours) on their own, so that there would be no question about their faith. Because to me, and this is only from my observation and could be interpreted as opinion, it seems like you and many other evangelical preachers are trying to scare people towards Christianity with threats of eternal damnation and torture through hell.”

My answer: I see evangelism as a good thing because God sees it as a good thing. Christians are commanded to “Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation.” (Mark 16:15)

In the book of Romans, the Apostle Paul writes: “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!” (Chapter 10)

So, not only is evangelism a good thing, but those who do it have beautiful feet! (And I’m telling you, I’ve got some nasty looking toes.)

It’s also a good thing to warn those who are ignorant about an afterlife because it isn’t  Heaven for everyone, and it’s never just “in the ground” at death. We are heralds simply being obedient to the king’s command to tell others to repent and trust in the Savior. (Read more about being a herald here.) And we always need more workers! Jesus said, “The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few. Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field.” (Matthew 9:37-38)

And yes, we are definitely trying to “scare people towards Christianity with threats of eternal damnation and torture through hell.” Jesus spoke a heck of a lot about judgment, condemnation and Hell. The epistles also speak much about eternal torment. I, too, will do the same.

That’s why Jesus is so awesome. He took the wrath of God for you. He took the punishment you deserve for your sin (breaking of the Commandments) . All you have to do is repent of your sin and trust in Jesus who suffered and died on a cross, was buried for three days and rose again. Then prove your belief by living it out. Yes, God became a man for you! He died for you!

Aren’t you happy that so many people are out there telling this great news to one and all? If we don’t do it, who will? So, yes, evangelism is a very good thing.

Click here to read another reason
why evangelism is a good thing.

Next week: Do I think what we do is effective?

Comments (105)

  1. Rykunderground

    Reply

    I get what you mean, evangelism is a religious ritual, like sacrificing goats, putting fish idols on your car or the circumcision. It doesn’t have to make sense, the deity commands it so the followers do it, besides religions do not grow rich and powerful waiting for converts to just drop by. Recruiting is the key to success for a faith and Christianity, like Islam is good at it. That is why those faiths have so much influence in the world.

    I also agree that your Jesus figure did have a lot to say about judgement and whatnot, I am just unsure why anyone would care. There is no evidence this judgement and fire and burning and all the other hoo ha will actually happen. Certainly the words attributed to a primitive rabbi from 2000 some odd years ago are not really worth the paper they were written on. Especially since they weren’t written by the rabbi himself. The overwhelming evidence is that they were written decades after his death by writers who in all likelihood were not the actual disciples they claimed to be. Further what documents there were were dissected and handpicked by early church fathers who had an agenda about which “Gospels” they chose to use.

    Now it is perfectly OK if someone is persuaded by this and obviously some people are, but really it is no more convincing to me than the threat of Santa putting coal in my stocking.

    • Glenn Parker

      Reply

      “There is no evidence this judgement and fire and burning….blah blah”

      Keep waiting and mocking; you’ll get your evidence.

      • Nohm

        Hi Glenn,

        If a Muslim said that to you, due to you ascribing partners with God, what would be your response?

        And “wait until you die, THEN you’ll see” is not the least bit persuasive, nor has it ever been in all of human history.

        Are you actually suggesting that the only evidence that exists of Hell is that dead people, who cannot communicate with us, have experienced it?

      • Steve Sanchez

        Nohm,

        There is no evidence of Hell.

        Hey Christians! Concede this one.

        Again, slowly: T-h-e-r-e i-s n-o e-v-i-d-e-n-c-e f-o-r H-e-l-l!

        Wait. There is New Jersey.

      • Rykunderground

        No that won’t happen. Nor will Santa leave coal in my stocking or the boogy man hide in my closet.

      • Donald "The Dog" Allen

        Nohm if a Muslim said that to me I would witness the Gospel to him. I would then give him a Bible and tell him to read it. My friends call me “The Dog” because I approach soul winning like Dog the Bounty Hunter. I don’t give up and I will share my faith with the ungodly. I want to steal souls from Satan.

        Nohm you are headed for Hell but God sent his Son Jesus into the world to save you(John 3:16). God has also sent his servants into the world to proclaim the Gospel to you. Nohm if you don’t repent before you die on the Day of Judgment you will see that Steve, Ray, Tony and I’m sure a lot more people all tried to warn you to repent. Repent before it is too late.

        The same goes for you Jim.

      • theB1ackSwan

        Hi Dog,

        A while ago, you asked me about a specific tribe that didn’t have a concept of stealing. I provided one for you. Any thoughts on it?

      • Nohm

        Hi Donald “The Dog”,

        If a Muslim gave you a Qur’an and told you to read it, what would your reaction be?

        Also:

        1. I do repent… to the people I’ve wronged.

        2. You make a lot of claims with supporting them. Why should I believe your claims over the claims of a Muslim?

      • Tone BRown

        I give a loud shout out and an AMEN to Steve, Steve L, Glenn, May and last but not least “The Dog”.

        Atheists you should listen to what these people have to say, then read your Bibles and see what the Holy Spirit has to say. Repent and Believe the Gospel.

        I am praying for the salvation of the atheists in this room.

      • Nohm

        Hi Tone,

        You wrote: “Atheists you should listen to what these people have to say,”

        Considering how often I reply to them, I think it’s clear that I do.

        “then read your Bibles”

        I do. I have multiple translations. Which is your preferred version?

        “and see what the Holy Spirit has to say.”

        Appears that the Holy Spirit isn’t saying anything. My mind says “none of this makes sense, or appears to match reality.”

        “Repent”

        I absolutely do repent… to the people I have wronged.

        “and Believe the Gospel.”

        I don’t have any reason to do so, just as I have no reason to believe in the supernatural claims in the Qur’an. We’re both on the same page with the latter, I would think.

        Be well.

  2. Rykunderground

    Reply

    I haver no problem with evangelists doing what evangelists do. Freedom of religion is one of the principles I am fond of. I do think that your freedom ends when it impinges on the freedoms of another. Such as when my supervisor at work insisted on proseletyzing me on a daily basis and when I finally asked him to stop he fabricated an excuse to fire me. Or when members of evangelistic cults use threats and violence to spread certain messages.

    As far as the sort of street preaching you do it is well within your rights. It is however very rude and I am well within my rights to speak against it, give rather unflattering descriptions of evangelists who are being very rude, and to invoke law enforcement if such evangelists assault me or invade my property.

    This fortunately is rare but I have seen it, there were anti choice activists in my town who were physically blocking women from accessing a clinic. They were standing in one womans way and moving when she moved thinking she would be deflected, when she continued on her path through them and they did not make way they legally crossed the line from protest to harrassment and had they not finally gave way when she refused to stop they would have been guilty of kidnapping under my states laws as well. Likewise some cults take very violent and aggressive stances against gay rights, and even religious freedom for non Christians.

    That being said I think the majority of evangelists are well with in their rights and many are quite polite, Mormons and Jehovas Witnesses in particular are friendly, articulate and knowledgeable about their doctrines.

    The main problem I have with evangelism is not whether it is right or wrong, I simply take issue with the arrogance of it. It is concieted in the extreme do try to foists ones particular superstition on people against their wishes. After all it would be within my rights to stand outside a restaraunt or playground and shout offensive commentary at those passing by even if they asked me to stop I could yell bad limericks and stupid jokes right at people trying to enjoy a picnic. The fact that I have the right to do that does not make it OK it would make me a selfish arrogant jerk, that is how I see street evangelism.

  3. Steve L.

    Reply

    Rykunderground wrote:

    “There is no evidence this judgement and fire and burning and all the other hoo ha will actually happen.”

    No evidence? How ’bout this:

    The Bible describes it as weeping (Matt 8:12),
    wailing (Matt 13:42),
    gnashing of teeth (Matt 13:50),
    darkness (Matt 25:30),
    flames (Luke 16:24),
    burning (Isa 33:14),
    torments (Luke 16:23),
    everlasting punishment! John 5:29:

    Jesus Christ says in Matthew 25:41, “Depart from me, ye cursed, into EVERLASTING FIRE, prepared for the devil and his angels.”

    And Rykunderground, that includes you unless you repent and put your trust in Christ! Behold, now is the day of salvation. 2 Cor. 6:2

      • perdita

        Bam you nailed it? Quotes aren’t evidence of anything other than someone once wrote or said something.

        People have believed preposterous things all through history and believing something is true is far different than showing that something is true.

        While there’s plenty of evidence to show that many people believe in Hell and eternal damnation, no one has given evidence that shows Hell and damnation are any more real than monsters under the bed.

      • May Murphy

        Steve L you hit the nail on the head. It is obvious to me that most atheists don’t know a Bible from a phone book. Atheists don’t know Jesus and they don’t have the Holy Spirit and they don’t understand the Scriptures. They act like high school students who pretend to know the subject matter but have only read the Cliff Notes. Woe unto them.

      • Nohm

        Hi Max,

        You wrote: “ It is obvious to me that most atheists don’t know a Bible from a phone book.”

        I’ll happily take that challenge. I would bet that I probably know my chapter and verse better than you do.

        “Atheists don’t know Jesus”

        I agree.

        “and they don’t have the Holy Spirit”

        I agree.

        “and they don’t understand the Scriptures.”

        “We disagree with you” is not the same as “we don’t understand”. The difference between those two statements is significant.

        “They act like high school students who pretend to know the subject matter but have only read the Cliff Notes.”

        Again, you wanna go chapter and verse with me?

        “Woe unto them.”

        So you say. You don’t demonstrate, but you say.

    • Rykunderground

      Reply

      The Bible is not evidence it is mythology. What the Bible describes is no more valid than what the Koran says about Allah or Harry Potter says about Voldermort. That is the problem I am having with this. Yes there are some historical accuracies in the Bible just as there are historical accuracies in the Illiad or the Skjoldungasaga which discuss the Greek and Norse mythos respectively. There is not however any evidence in the Bible for Heaven, Hell, Magic, or Miracles other than “it says in the Bibe” which means nothing at all.

    • Nohm

      Reply

      Steve L.,

      Do you consider surahs of the Qur’an to be evidence that the Islamic claim of “ascribing partners with Allah leads you to hellfire” is true and accurate?

      What you have listed is hearsay at best, and not evidence.

      We are looking for evidence that simply supports the existence of Hell. If you think that your ancient holy book is evidence of its own claims, then I’m curious if you afford the same view to the Qur’an.

      • Steve L.

        Nohm says:
        ” We are looking for evidence that simply supports the existence of Hell.”

        Nohm:
        Jesus used the most awful symbols imaginable to describe hell. The function of symbols is to point beyond themselves to a higher or more intense state of actuality. That can’t be of any comfort to you (or anyone else) who see them simply as symbols. Oh, I just remembered, you don’t believe in the Savior!

        Webster: Symbols;
        Something that stands for or suggests something else by reason of relationship, association, convention, or accidental resemblance; especially: a visible sign of something invisible …

      • Nohm

        Hi Steve L,

        So, no evidence, I take it. And I’m bummed that you didn’t even attempt to answer the questions I posed to you.

        I’m also a bit surprised that you “just remembered” that I don’t believe in your Savior. Even if I did, his words that a Hell exists are not in themselves evidence that a Hell exists. It would be hearsay, symbols or otherwise.

        I don’t even really see them as symbols, for the record. I see that the author probably intended them to be as such, though.

    • Donald "The Dog" Allen

      Reply

      Jim you have swung and missed the message of the Gospel. Repent now before you are eternally benched in the dugout of Hell.

    • Nameless Cynic

      Reply

      So what you’re saying is that we have to believe in the things in the Bible, because they’re described… in the Bible.

      lolwhut?

      New term for you, Steve. “Circular argument.” Look it up.

      • Steve Sanchez

        No. What we are saying is that you need to believe in the Savior of the Bible, then you will believe the things in the Bible.

      • Nohm

        Hi Steve,

        Even then, that would be an argument from an authority. Authority figures can be wrong sometimes.

      • Erikalynn Marie

        Believe the Gospel and be saved. Jesus Christ is real and He can really change your life and your afterlife.

      • perdita

        Believe the Gospel and be saved. Jesus Christ is real and He can really change your life and your afterlife.

        Tried that. Didn’t quite work out as intended.

      • Nohm

        Hi Eirikalynn,

        My issue is this: why I should I believe what you just wrote, without any supporting evidence that it’s true, instead of a Muslim telling me their religious beliefs?

      • vintango2k

        So belief leads to belief… can I put that idea on my car when my tire goes out? =)

    • Glenn Parker

      Reply

      Jim, if you know the Bible better than most Christians, then that means you’ve met more than half the world’s Christians and you’ve somehow proven your superior mastery of Scripture to each of them. Yeah, I bet not. Are you going to recant your silly claim?

    • Nohm

      Reply

      Hi Donald,

      Once again we go back to, “what evidence is there that this place called Hell even exists?”

    • theB1ackSwan

      Reply

      Please. I know plenty of people, myself included, who have been though so much worse than what this sounds like. Your God, in an attempt to scare us, is genuinely pathetic.

    • Rykunderground

      Reply

      So if murder is wrong objectively, then we have no need of a God to know that murder is wrong, hence the supposed divine basis for Christian morality is a moot point.

      That is what atheists have been getting at, murder is wrong in and of itself. We know this because we have a sense of empathy which informs us that other humans (and even non humans) share the same drives and desires as we do. We also have social instincts and social upbringing which encourage us to treat others as we would like to be treated (these instincts are what inspired the maxim your mythos describes as the golden rule). So we know that since we do not wish to be murdered it is also wrong to murder others. That is how we all know murder is wrong without having to create a God figure to provide such knowledge.

    • Donald "The Dog" Allen

      Reply

      Jim God is the creator of life. God gives life and God can take life away. Since God created life He can do with it as he pleases.

    • Really?

      Reply

      So those people he killed in the flood (he created) Evangelical Christians seem to believe in died because of what?

  5. vintango2k

    Reply

    I’m suddenly reminded of an old Daily Show bit called Even Steven with the Steves up there.

  6. Steve L.

    Reply

    May Murphy says:
    “It is obvious to me that most atheists don’t know a Bible from a phone book.” +1

    Donald “The Dog” Allen says:
    “Jim you have swung and missed the message of the Gospel. Repent now before you are eternally benched in the dugout of Hell.” +2

    Both of you just hit the “nails” on the head. LOL x 10

    • Rykunderground

      Reply

      Steve L I am a long ternm student of the Bible and know it quite well. It is just a book of myths, geneologies and tribal laws with a small bit of distorted history thrown in. There is no evidence that any of the supernatural claims the Bible makes, including hell are true. None. Repeating your myths over and over is not evidence it as an admission that you have none.

      • Steve L.

        Rykunderground wrote:
        ” I am a long term student of the Bible and know it quite well. It is just a book of myths, genealogies and tribal laws with a small bit of distorted history thrown in.”

        Your statement is proof positive you know very little about God’s holy word!

        And just a side note, I corrected your spelling of “genealogies & term!” Hmmmmm

      • Rykunderground

        Steve L
        Correcting typos is nice of you but hardly an argument. Nor is what else you claim. It is the fact that I do know the Bible that informs me of its falsehood. It is clear that you simply accept the indoctrination that is spoon fed to you without looking critically at your superstitions. Any sane adult who reads the Bible with a critical mind will see that it is simply archaic myth. Those who see it otherwise are either not adults, not sane, or not looking critically. I will assume you are the third.

    • Rykunderground

      Reply

      Steve
      Even a broken clock is right twice a day. The Bible also mentions such obvious thing as the existence of sheep. That does not make its claims about magic, miracles and fiery torture houses any less false.

    • Nameless Cynic

      Reply

      Sorry, Steve, but you just showed yourself to be a tool. I’m more than willing to debate you on biblical matters. I may not believe it, but I’ve always thought that knowing the majority beliefs is a good thing.

      By the way, perhaps you should google the phrase “Seven Deadly Sins.” You’re falling into at least two of them.

  7. Rykunderground

    Reply

    Nohm I disagree with you that the mythmakers who fabricated the Bible intended hell and such as symbols. I think they actually meant it as a literal burning nasty place. That fits with the mindset of the times, the Romans were a power at the time and unlike the Greeks who did see their myths as symbols the Romans were more literalistic, that is probably why Christianity and Mithraism caught on with the Romans in the first place.

    I think modern Christians see them as symbols because the idea of a fiery prison even strikes the superstitious as silly.

  8. Nohm

    Reply

    Hi Steve L,

    None of us, that I know of, say “there is no God”, whether in our mind or in our “heart”.

    What we DO say is, “these people make a lot of supernatural claims without making attempts to support the claims, and use a methodology that doesn’t appear to have a history of working. In addition, they want us to view their religion in a way that they don’t view other religions, and I don’t know why they’d expect us to act in a way that they themselves won’t act. Pretty strange.”

    That’s not “there is no God”. Maybe Psalms got it wrong?

    • Rykunderground

      Reply

      If we are talking about the Christian God then I for one say there is no God. The Christian God is a logical impossibility, there is no possible circumstance under which it could exist. As for some unnamed deity that I have not yet examined I can not say. The Christian God however? Not real.

  9. Rykunderground

    Reply

    Personally I would call someone who uses quotes from a book of bronze age fairy tales to insul their critics a fool. I mean really why would anyone care what the tribal storm God of a bunch of brutal nomads had to say about foolishness?

    • May Murphy

      Reply

      “Bronze age fairy tales”

      Rykinderground you have just revealed how little you know about the Bible.

      Instead of spending your time making untrue statement about something you obviously don’t know much about I suggest that you actually read the Bible and pray to God for forgiveness.

    • Rykunderground

      Reply

      @May I have read the Bible frequently that is how I know it is simply myth. I am not making false satements and I certainly know the ible well. It seems it is you who are ignorant as you offered no evidence to refute my claims.

    • vintango2k

      Reply

      I demand an investigation be launched immediately to ascertain how a bombshell this big could have gone off without anyone knowing about it before hand. It must have been an inside job…. and additionally, where’s your birth certificate Steve?

    • BathTub

      Reply

      And of course Steve is going to say he’s effective, the question is just how hilariously low he sets the bar for effective.

      As we all know effective will not be ‘bringing people to Christ’ it will be ‘shouting at people as much as possible then patting himself on the back’. Even Ray Comfort on his own Living Waters site could not give a single example of a Athiest he bought to Christ. No wonder he’s fled from it.

  12. Pam Hawley

    Reply

    A person has to be insane to turn down the gift of eternal life. Insane!

    • Nohm

      Reply

      Hi Pam,

      You wrote: “A person has to be insane to turn down the gift of eternal life.”

      I completely agree. The problem is that the claim “eternal life exists” has not met our burden of proof.

      Islam also offers the gift of eternal life, but I’m guessing you’re not accepting their offer, right?

      As another example, what if I said to you:

      “A person has to be insane to turn down the opportunity to be an Operating Thetan! Insane!”

      How convincing would that be for you? My guess is “not much”.

  13. Donald "The Dog" Allen

    Reply

    Jim I fJim I found your videos on YouTube and did some research. I am worried for you. You are overweight, you ride motorcycles, you play with guns and you don’t believe in Jesus. You are living on the edge. All of your hobbies are a recipe for disaster. You don’t need life insurance you need AFTERLIFE insurance. Put away your toys for a few hours and get into the Word of God, which is the Bible. Pray to Jesus to help you.

    • Steve Sanchez

      Reply

      Donald, Can you provide a link so all of us can watch Jim’s videos? It helps to put put a face on those who we pray for. My wife lost over 50 pounds the last year, and I, by her example, lost 20.

      Hey Jim, ask me how! I want you around for a few more years so I can learn from you! 🙂

      • perdita

        Donald – you forgot to include any reasons to take your claims seriously.

      • Nohm

        Good to hear about your and your wife’s weight loss, Steve. Glad to hear you’re getting healthier.

      • Steve Sanchez

        Nope. Harder—and easier—than that!

        I’m going to write an article in the near future called “Weight as Witness.”

      • Donald "The Dog" Allen

        I would like the atheists to know that I wasn’t making fun of Jim’s weight. My point is that obesity has been linked to medical conditions that lead to premature death. Like playing with guns and motorcycles, having extra pounds can put a person at risk for meeting their maker sooner than later. Everyone needs to get right with the Lord, Jesus Christ. Repent and Believe the Gospel.

      • Nohm

        Eating healthy and good exercise? Being outside handing out tracts is certainly a type of exercise.

      • carl

        Carl

        Steve I would love to read a post about weight loss. Being healthier might extend the lifespan of our atheist friends. A longer life means more time to repent.

      • perdita

        Nope. Harder—and easier—than that!

        Good. I was a little worried with the ‘ask me how.’ Congrats on the weight loss, you two.

      • carl

        Steve said, It helps to put put a face on those who we pray for.

        I agree. I will be praying for Jim too.

    • Rykunderground

      Reply

      I can not speak for Jim but really who cares about some imagined afterlife, when you can enjoy the real life you already have. If Jim likes guns, bikes and good food that is excellent. It is no recipe for disaster it is a recipe for happiness.

      I am carrying a few extra pounds myself, not really a problem, my Doc says I am in great health anyway and even if I weren’t so what? I don’t fear death and certainly don’t fear some silly superstition about an afterlife.

      We have this life to enjoy and happiness comes from love, friendship, knowledge, simple pleasures and fearing niether death nor Gods.

    • theB1ackSwan

      Reply

      Excuse me, “Dog”, I provided citations for the region of Africa that doesn’t have a concept of stealing, much less absolute ethics, as you asked me to provide. Care to provide insight on this?

      • Donald "The Dog" Allen

        theB1ackSwan

        You made a claim that some society doesn’t have a word for stealing. You still haven’t provided the name of that society.

        My thoughts are that no such society exists. Every society knows what the concept of stealing is.

      • carl

        Hi Blackswan,

        I was interested in the group that doesn’t have a concept of stealing. What is the name of it?

      • Rykunderground

        Apparently he did not read your citations and prefers ignorance to investigation.

      • Rykunderground

        Carl they are called the Piraha, they live in Brazil. They are a small tribe that still live in their ancestral manner. They are primitive in a modern sense but highly advanced in the skills necessary for their survival. They also have a unique and subtle language.

        I would also like to introduce you and your fellow evangelists to this innovation known as Google. I have found it common in my discussions with evangelists that you often ask for imformation which is readily accesible with a 30 second internet search.

      • theB1ackSwan

        HI “The Dog”,

        Actually, on the exact same thread (“Atheists Make Better Liars, Thieves, and Murderers”), I posted not only a specific tribe/ethic group, but also the overall area in which many tribes do not have a western system of morality (that is, “ethics” defined by actions). Here’s the link in cased you missed the comment: https://stonethepreacher.com/2012/03/06/atheists-make-better-liars-thieves-and-murderers.html/comment-page-1#comment-38380

        Also, in case you’re too lazy and dishonest to actually click the link, here’s the text from that link: “Hi “The Dog”,

        There are various tribes in the Bantu-speaking areas of Africa that do not think of morality in the same way that western religions do. Specifically, they do not condemn actions as a whole, and many of these ethnic groups do not have a specific word for ethics or morality. Rather, they refer to a person’s character and how it benefits the tribe. In other words, murder, stealing, lying, and so on is okay as long as it benefits the society they belong to. Interestingly, after doing a mild bit of research, lying is shrugged off my some of these ethnic groups as mere jokes.

        As for a specific ethnic group, I offer you this particular quote about the Lovedu: “Right conduct is relative always to the human situation and morality is oriented not from any absolute standards of honesty or truth but from the social good in each situation. Conduct that promotes smooth relationships, that upholds the social structure, is good; conduct that runs counter to smooth social relationships is bad” – from “The Lovedu of the Transvaal” by J.D. Krige and E.J Krige (1954).”

        One more point – please note that I posted this comment on March 9th at 9:14 a.m. You’ve made quite a number of comments past that point both on other threads and that particular one. I would argue that you either refuse to acknowledge that I posted this comment, or merely have a tactic of demanding specifics and then running away under the assumption that I wouldn’t provide them. Either way, it is quite dishonest of you to suggest I haven’t provided one.

        As a kicker, carl remarked that the Inuit do not have a word for war. I was quick to note that they also engage in infanticide. Again, what about absolute and universal ethics do you believe, exactly?

      • Donald "The Dog" Allen

        Hi TheB1lackSwan I’m sorry that I didn’t see your post. To get back on topic you made this statement:

        TheB1ackSwan says:
        March 6, 2012 at 9:49 pm
        Why must it be necessary to prove “universal” and “absolute”? Morality clearly isn’t ethical at all, as some societies don’t consider stealing to be a moral issue. They don’t have the word “stealing” even defined in their language.

        Your claim is that, “They don’t have the word “stealing” even defined in their language.”

        Not only have you not defined who “they” are but the truth is that there is no such society that doesn’t have a word for stealing. If a society has a word for “stealing” then they have a concept for it.

        You mention the Bantu. The Bantu have a word for stealing. They understand the concept of taking something that doesn’t belong to them from someone else.

        You made a claim and your claim is false. Deal with it.

      • theB1ackSwan

        “The Dog”,

        You claim that the bantu (which, by the way, is an area of Africa, not a tribe, implying different languages per tribe in that region) do have a word for “stealing.” Can you please provide your source? Also, please note that I did define a specific tribe – the Lovedu that do not have a word for “steal”.

        Deal with it.

      • theB1ackSwan

        By the way, any rebuttal to the Inuit point? I’d be happy to hear how everyone understands absolute and universal ethics, granted that the Inuit participate in infanticide.

      • Donald "The Dog" Allen

        Hi theB1ackSwan. We are not having a debate therefore I don’t have a rebuttal. You made a mistake. You said that there was some society in the world that had no word for stealing. I asked you to tell me the name of that society. You still haven’t provided the name of a society that doesn’t have a word for stealing. If some society doesn’t punish a starving man for stealing bread for his family wonderful. It is still stealing. That society has a word for it.

        The Bantu languges speaking peoples and the Lobedu have a word to describe the concept of stealing. You can’t admit that you are wrong. The issue is that you made a claim that some society does not have the word for stealing. You haven’t provided me with any sources or citations. If you were writing a research paper I am afraid that you would fail.

      • theB1ackSwan

        The Dog,

        I provided my source. The Lovedu do not have a word for stealing, much less a concept of Western ethics. You claim that they do. Please, cite a source or the world itself, and I’ll happily admit I’m wrong. If not, please do not continue to assert that I haven’t provided a group.

        And I know we aren’t in a debate, but the Inuit point shows that *not everyone has the same morality or the same ethical systems*, thus ethics is not absolute or universal.

        Thanks.

      • Donald "The Dog" Allen

        § theB1ackSwan says:
        March 27, 2012 at 1:29 pm
        The Dog,
        I do apologize for taking this outside of its original thread, but the issue needs your attention.
        How exactly is ” ‘Right conduct is relative always to the human situation and morality is oriented not from any absolute standards of honesty or truth but from the social good in each situation. Conduct that promotes smooth relationships, that upholds the social structure, is good; conduct that runs counter to smooth social relationships is bad’ – from “The Lovedu of the Transvaal” by J.D. Krige and E.J Krige (1954).” not a citation?
        And again, the Inuits disprove your point on absolute and universal ethics, and you have no response to that? Debate or not, it ruins your point, so I’d expect some type of defense.
        Or, you know, pretend the point wasn’t brought up like you’ve been doing this entire time.

        theB1ackSwan you never provided a citation about some society that doesn’t have a word for stealing. The Lobedu have a word for stealing it is iba (iva).

        I never made a point about the Inuit or ethics. Someone else mentioned the Inuit.

        The only point I made is that you said some society doesn’t have a word for stealing and you have failed to provide evidence of that society.

    • Donald "The Dog" Allen

      Reply

      Jim you can have all the respect in the world for motorcycles and some carelss driver can end your life without you even knowing it. ONe minute you will be riding down the street and BAM next thing you know you will be before the throne of Jesus Christ. Repent and Believe the Gospel now before it is too late Jim.

    • carl

      Reply

      Jim,

      I too want to see you saved.

      I want to see you eat, ride motorcycles and shoot guns for the glory of God..

      I try to make healthier food choices for myself and I make a habit of doing some sort of exercise a few times a day for just a few minutes. Just being more aware of what I eat and not to be too sedentary each day has really worked wonders for me. Slow and steady is the key to permanent weight loss in my opinion.

    • Rykunderground

      Reply

      So you can have respect for your feet and be run down by a careless driver, big deal.

      You claimed he was living a hazardous life he rebutted that claim. As to your imagined afterlife I am assuming that like myself he doesn’t believe in that childish myth.

    • BathTub

      Reply

      There is absolutely no reason to bring up someone’s weight in an irrelevant matter in a public discussion like this than to use it as an excuse to belittle him. If you were genuine you could have bought it up privately.

      And of course Steve allowed the comment, but ‘Why do you think this is good’ must be deleted.

      But there is that Love of the Holy spirit for you.

    • perdita

      Reply

      Jim you can have all the respect in the world for motorcycles and some carelss driver can end your life without you even knowing it.

      Donald, that also happens to pedestrians and bicycle riders. Jim’s weight, guns and motorcycles have nothing to do with your claims about an afterlife. Do you have anything to back up your claims other than more claims?

    • Steve Sanchez

      Reply

      Thanks! I’m sure everyone will appreciate his thoughts and points of view.

      I did view his “gambling” video—and I agree with him! Good point, Jim about praying for a lotto ticket.! Finally, we get to see what one of our resident atheists looks like!

      Christians,please encourage our friend Jim. Bless him. Offer helpful advice if any is needed. And compliment him when he does a good job. If you don’t like a video of his, don’t say anything. Let’s be an example to this man.

      He may learn from us! 🙂

      • BathTub

        Note his Koran burning video and compare it to Ray’s comments that people don’t mock Muslims.

      • BathTub

        Also note that I only have to mention that Terry has at least 4 YouTube channels and Steve deems that information sacred and has to be censored, yet The Dog posts direct links to Jims youtube channel to belittle him and Steve put it’s through twice.

  15. Steve L.

    Reply

    Jim, no bother! I’ve been riding 53 yrs! Let’s get together and put on some miles!

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