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44 Comments

  1. Oh wow, you saved a baby Steve?! That’s… oh wait. You saved a fetus, which later grew into a baby. Use your words Steve, they have meaning.

    Would you say you saved a magnificent oak tree because you threw yourself in front of the lawnmower to stop it running over a sapling? (or, y’ know, made a propoganda documentary about how Hitler used lawnmowers and American mowing is exactly the same as genocide and mass murder).

    • Are you kidding? Instead of rejoicing you quibble over terms? And you are wrong to boot.

      • Oh I’m not saying having a baby isn’t a good thing, and congratulations to Vanessa! But stopping an early-term abortion is not the same thing as saving a baby, and you said a baby had been “saved”.

        I guess my point of contention stems from the fact that I don’t know if saving a handful of healthy fetuses long before they become consious outweighs the massive amounts of pain and horror the anti-abortion movement has and continues to cause. Have you ever read any of the stories from women who have had to get abortions for medical reasons (often where going through with the pregnancy would just kill them both)? They’re heartbreaking, and more often than not they’re made even more heartbreaking by the effects of conservative anti-abortion policies. Mandatory ultrasounds and descriptions and waiting periods only cause more pain to someone during the worst times of their life.

        Statistically, of course, contraception and sex-education have been far more effective at reducing the rate of abortion than the entire anti-abortion movement has. The irony is, given that a lot of anti-abortionists also support “abstinence-only” education, I’d say anti-choicers are responsible for a significant percentage of abortions every year.

        Lastly: anecdotes are not evidence. I support anti-abortion measures that work.

      • Well. yes. Terminology *matters*.

    • Actually, Quasar, it would be more accurate to say that he threw himself in front of a squirrel to stop it from eating an acorn.

      Because, Steve, acorns are not oak trees. Hate to break it to you. The Bible repeatedly says that a person is not alive until it takes its first breath, starting in Genesis 2:7:

      “the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.”

      Alternatively, in Leviticus 27:6, the Lord tells Moses how much people are worth, to establish the tithe, and children aren’t worth anything until they’re a month old (anything younger apparently has no value). In the same way, the Lord told Moses to count the “Levites” (Jews) in Numbers 3:15, but not to count anybody less than a month old. So perhaps the baby isn’t even human until then.

  2. Its amazing the fantastical stories the Baby killers conjour up to justify over 50,000,000 abortions.

    “Statistically, of course, contraception and sex-education have been far more effective at reducing the rate of abortion than the entire anti-abortion movement has. The irony is, given that a lot of anti-abortionists also support “abstinence-only” education, I’d say anti-choicers are responsible for a significant percentage of abortions every year.”

    So now its Pro life groups fault LOL , you guys are really deluded and desperate.

    Quasar, Abortion happens because self centered people refuse to take responciblity for their actions and wicked laws allow such genocide.

    How did we survive before 1973? oh my what a cruel world it was before abortion was allowed huh?

    • Looking at facts and statistics is desperate? Abstinence only has been a failure. Wishful thinking on the part of fundies won’t change that.

      Studies show that teens that go through abstinence only are just as likely to have sex – but less likely to use contraception – then those that are actually educated about sex and contraception. Yeah, that’s putting a dent in teen pregnancies.

      Abortion isn’t the solution to unwanted pregnancies. Education and contraception is. But the same people that want to outlaw abortion tend to be the same people that want to get rid of contraception and dumb down sex-ed.

      Whatever my views on abortion, I will never support anti-abortion legislation because those people are also after contraception and sex-ed.

      • Oh, and getting rid of contraception and abortion won’t stop people from having sex in ways that you (and of course the mythical God you believe exists) may deem inappropriate.

    • I’ve noticed that nowhere in your post is any kind of evidence refuting the statistics that proper sex education does a better job reducing abortions that junk like 180. Last time you made a bunch of claims, I found links debunking your garbage, and you ran like a scared bunny. Does evidence frighten?

      Oh and

      gen·o·cide
         [jen-uh-sahyd]
      noun
      the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.

      I guess we could call a fetus part of a “cultural group,” but we’re not trying to exterminate this group. Explain to me how allowing a woman to have an abortion is genocide. “It happened a LOT” does not a genocide make.

    • Okay RyanShirtz this is a place for ADULTS to talk. Adults don’t refer to pro-choice people as “baby killers”.

      I know you are trying to put a spin on abortion and the different beliefs around it, but please, sound like an adult when doing it; not a brainwashed christian fundamentalist school-child.

    • Yes, Ryan. It is pro-life groups’ fault. They pushed this ignorance called “abstinence only” education, and here’s the result.

      http://cregs.sfsu.edu/article/abstinence_only_failure_latest_research_shows

      This brainless policy increased the incidence of unwanted pregnancies, thereby creating more need for abortion in a country where it’s increasingly difficult to get one. It therefore increases the number of unwanted children (which must be a dream for them as they grow up); which means that people who can’t afford to have children are forced to do so. Continuing the cycle of poverty.

      Good Christian virtues, there.

    • Incidentally, are we still dealing in facts? Because there’s lots more out there. For example, this little website called AlterNet has an article chock-full of those pesky little fact things. Entitled “5 Countries That Do It Better: How Sexual Prudery Makes America a Less Healthy and Happy Place”

      http://www.alternet.org/story/154970/5_countries_that_do_it_better:_how_sexual_prudery_makes_america_a_less_healthy_and_happy_place?page=entire

      Completely work-safe, by the way. No dirty words, no nudity, no nothin’

  3. I thought 180 was the hottest thing on the internet? That it was putting cat blogs out of business and running out of the DVDs to keep up with the frantic demand.

    And you just now, half a year after its release, have evidence of ONE person that changed her mind about having an abortion?

    That is adorable. You’re PROUD of this too, which makes it even more cute.

    • Garrett says:
      “I thought 180 was the hottest thing on the internet? That it was putting cat blogs out of business and running out of the DVDs to keep up with the frantic demand.
      And you just now, half a year after its release, have evidence of ONE person that changed her mind about having an abortion?

      That is adorable. You’re PROUD of this too, which makes it even more cute.”

      Garrett:

      Your comment is despicable!!!

      I’ll guarantee you Ray would have released 10,000,000 copies if only ONE child would have been saved! The same goes for salvation; one soul is precious!
      Jesus says: “Just so, I tell you, there is joy before the angels of God over one sinner who repents.” (Luke 15:10 ESV)
      And yes, were thankful for every life that is spared!!

      • Interesting, if you sincerely believe that, care to offer your reasoning why Living Waters would sit on the finished product for months and refuse to allow people to watch it early?

      • They waited until the fullness of time.

        You asked this question numerous times; I hope this answer suffices.

        Another possibility: They wanted to get it just right so that it would be the hottest video on the Internet, which it is.

      • Because nothing says sincerity like wasting resources on ineffective campaigns.

      • I’m not saying what Ray would or would not do. I’m saying that Living Waters has puffed this very minor video into some kind of juggernaut. Yet the results speak for themselves: one abortion averted that you can point to in the past six months.

        This just confirms my hunch that you cannot think up effective methods to persuade people, and thus rely on carpet bombing with a ton of garbage arguments that rely on taking advantage of the easily fooled or emotionally vulnerable. You throw your net out as often as possible without being aware that it’s full of holes. Then you celebrate when you catch one weakened bass.

      • Good hollow answer Steve especially since you had to ignore the basis of the question ‘that it was finished’ to answer ‘when it was finished’.

        Anyway that a question to Steve L.

      • If that is true then Ray is more of an idiot than I thought. I am not sure how much it would cost to release 10 million copies of his Hitler movie, but lets say ten cents each. That would be one million dollars. I have no doubt that one could easily find 20 women more than willing to have the baby if someone offered 50000 dollars for help with medical expenses and creating a home. So for the same cost as saving one fetus with 10 million vids he could have saved 20 through charity. Now lets move on to outright bribery. He could have easily found 100 women who would have had a baby and given it to an adoption agency for a simple bribe of 10000 dolars which would have saved 100 fetuses at the same price as one. Now this is dicier but quite possible that he could have simply had people offer flat 1000 dollar bribes at abortion clinics to poor women to have the baby. Many might have refused but it is very likely that he could have found a thousand who would take it thereby saving a thousand fetuses.

        Apparently math is another field of study fundamentalists are in denial of.

    • To claim 180 is the “Hotest thing on the internet” is either admitting you are a liar or admitting you are an idiot. There is no standard that one could make by which 180 could be judged the hottest thing on the internet and you must know this unless you are an idiot. If you do know this and say otherwise you are a liar.

      Not that you being a liar is a surprise, you are a disciple of Ray Comfort who is the most prolific liar I have ever engaged in dialogue.

  4. So at this point in the campaign, with 180 going viral and being the hottest movie on the internets, and Ray selling and giving away hundreds of thousands of copies,… there must be some pretty substantial signs of change by now right? Like statistically significant measurable drops in the rates of abortion in the US?

  5. Awesome! It once again shows how the world is against those who speak the truth! Awesome! (And no, I have no evidence, scientific data nor empirical calculating strata to prove my point.)

    Did I say AWESOME!

    • What’s stopping you right now? Would you agree that there are unwanted babies in the USA today?

    • Yes, but how many babies have you adopted, Steve?

    • Myself, I don’t find fault with anyone who don’t adopt.

      I *do* find fault with people who pretend adoption is the cure for all of society’s ills, yet live as if it were no more important than a post on a blog.

    • Steve if you have no evidence, scientific data or empirical calculating strata to prove your point then it is not a point at all. It is an opinion, and a completely unsubstantiated one. This is fine of course, you are entitled to an opinion, but it is nothing anyone else need consider. Also based on the accuracy of the other opinions you express redularly, it is almost certainly incorrect.

    • I guess what it comes down to, is if abortion were to be made illegal in the USA, the only way to counter the ease of abortions cost wise is to socialize healthcare and adoption, essentially insure that women who become pregnant are taken care of medically and that their babies are assured a family who could care for them. Problem is that conservatives who want abortion to stop have shown themselves exceedingly unwilling to have any kind of free healthcare for the masses. This of course doesn’t address reproductive rights for women or available families for adoptions.

      I think it would be helpful for someone to look up some stats on frequency of adoptions to see if there are enough families available to take in kids who are in need of adopting, and then compare that number to the number of fetuses that are aborted per year in the US to see if there were enough families available to cover the extra children that are brought to term as a result of the outlaw of abortion.

      If healthcare coverage were full and comprehensive and the ratio of adoptive families to needy children was right, I’d say you’d have better footing with which to use as a bat against abortion, but unless these two problems are realistically addressed, simply making abortion illegal becomes a pipe dream that, if passed, opens up a black market of back alley abortions because some people just can’t afford to have these children or the children themselves end up in an orphanage as wards of the state due to a shortage of adoptive parents.

    • “Awesome! It once again shows how the world is against those who speak the truth! Awesome! (And no, I have no evidence, scientific data nor empirical calculating strata to prove my point.)”

      Amen brother! Perhaps you can help me start my anti-vaccination campaign! I had heard from a friend that vaccines cause autism! We have to put an end of vaccinations before all our kids end up autistic! I mean really, how often do you see measles or mumps around here anymore anyways?! Its all a conspiracy I tell you, and no I don’t have any evidence, scientific data or calculating strata to back up what I’m saying I just know it, and that’s perfectly safe right, I mean I have the best of intentions, right?

  6. I recently had abortion touch my life as well. A young woman on my team at work, she is just now 21, had become pregnant due to a contraception failure. She was of the anti choice mindset as well and was going to have the baby. Fortunately she came to me for advice, many of the young people there do…they call me uncle..a role I take seriously.

    She had been conditioned by her religious family to believe abortion was murder and whatnot. We talked and she talked about how she was unready to be a mother and how she did not want to leave her job. I explained to her how a fetus, especially at three weeks or so is not a person, does not have a developed nervous system that can feel pain and no sentience. We had a number of such conversations, eventually she had the abortion, afterwards she was so much happier as if a great weight had been lifted. She was aware there were certain medical risks involved but they are rare and she came out of it with no complications.

    For her the abortion saved her future, she is a bright young woman who can continue to pursue her occupation and education and one day have children when she and her fiance are married and ready to raise a family.

  7. Steve as before I judge you by the commonly accepted standards of my culture that says that those who state opinions as if they are facts are being dishonest.

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